Hello everybody

[MRT144]

Again, this has nothing to do with our argument.

The practice is sexist. Simply say yes it is sexist. I really don't care why you don't agree with it or say it would destroy the church.
Just because it's been tried before and didn't work doesn't make it not sexist.

Geeze.

Please stay with the program. I don't care about your justifications for supporting a sexist policy.

Just say "it's Sexist but I'm OK with it because my faith says it's OK".

Story of his posting career.

[Flubber]

From the standpoint of an outsider?

It just doesn't work. All the churches that have done it are losing members precipitously. You need to have something for the men to do, because if there's no men there, then the church will just slowly dwindle away. Get the men in and keep them, and the women will follow.

This is really nothing new rah. It's been tried before, and it didn't work then and it's not going to work now.

So a male clergy is key for recruitment and retention-- hhmmmmm

The local neighborhood church has a female (late 20s) clergy-- she retains all the seniors and is building a core of young families that relate well to her as she has a small child and a husband around as well-- Hubby helps with the mens club ( a church group that has its sole function as sharing a beer on the first Thursday of every month)

[regexcellent]

If the Southern Baptists started ordaining women, their followers would jump ship.

[MRT144]

If the Southern Baptists started ordaining women, their followers would jump ship.

"If negros are allowed to drink from the same water fountain all hell will break loose!"

[Flubber]

Getting back to firefighters, if a woman can meet the same standard, then sure. But we shouldn't have two different standards. If a particular woman can't meet the same standard as the men, then she shouldn't be doing that job.

Under human rights law , what we are talking about was often termed a " bona fide occupational Qualification" and those were fine. There was a legal test as to whether a certain requirement qualified.

Some are easy such as a male to be a male chage room attendent and a female for the female change room. Others , like a lifting requirement, may pass muster but often only if it is a continuing requirement ( as in you must always be able to lift x to be considered qualified for this job)

[Jon Miller]

So a male clergy is key for recruitment and retention-- hhmmmmm

The local neighborhood church has a female (late 20s) clergy-- she retains all the seniors and is building a core of young families that relate well to her as she has a small child and a husband around as well-- Hubby helps with the mens club ( a church group that has its sole function as sharing a beer on the first Thursday of every month)

It depends on the beliefs of the members of the church.

JM

[Asher]

Why do you think Elizabeth I was excommunicated?

She was excommunicated for persecutions of Catholics in America?

[MRT144]

She was excommunicated for persecutions of Catholics in America?

Is it any wonder that Ben teaches at a Christian Private school?

[notyoueither]

It's been remarked on before how ignorant he is about subjects he is being paid to teach.

[regexcellent]

"If negros are allowed to drink from the same water fountain all hell will break loose!"

How is that related to the fact that the churchgoing Southern Baptists wouldn't in general be in favor of ordaining women?

Are you accusing me of sexism or something? I am not a southern baptist.

[MRT144]

How is that related to the fact that the churchgoing Southern Baptists wouldn't in general be in favor of ordaining women?

Are you accusing me of sexism or something? I am not a southern baptist.

If Southern Baptists as a congregation can't handle women as priests they deserve to parish (PUN ALERT!)

[Elok]

Sometimes I'm ambivalent about arguing with BK. On the one hand, he's an inveterate liar who argues in perpetual bad faith, so the argument never goes anywhere genuinely thought-provoking. On the other, sometimes his bad-faith wriggling causes him to say something so profoundly silly that it approaches Pangloss.

Fortunately, other posters can be relied upon to quote those bits for me to read. Like "men need the priesthood because they need something to do." Yes, all of the men stick around because of the one percent or less of them who are officiating the service. Women don't need that, but if there weren't that one dude up there the guys would all be terribly discontent. And it's not like they can become involved in the church in some other way, like singing/chanting or participating in lay ministry. Nope. You need that tiny minority of clergy to keep the men.

Crikey.

[rah]

Yeah, I know it's useless to argue with him, but I just can't resist when he states those stupid things. (which I'm sure he's doing intentionally just to get us to respond)

[Ben Kenobi]

She was excommunicated for persecutions of Catholics in America?

Catholics fled to America to escape persecution....

[Ben Kenobi]

So a male clergy is key for recruitment and retention

There are plenty of scriptural reasons for it - see Timothy. But if you are asking for reasons outside of scripture.

The local neighborhood church has a female (late 20s) clergy-- she retains all the seniors and is building a core of young families that relate well to her as she has a small child and a husband around as well-- Hubby helps with the mens club ( a church group that has its sole function as sharing a beer on the first Thursday of every month)

Then they are fortunate. Most churches are experiencing the opposite. Massive membership declines.