Will the real Christians like Father Michael Ryan please stand up?

[Wezil]

No. You are an ass.

And those who support abortion support baby killing.

Just the facts.


JM

You feel fine calling people killers (or accessories to killing) but I'm an ass for calling you a coward? Nice.

[Wezil]

You're making a false dichotomy. He could simply be too selfish to make any major sacrifice for a good cause.

True. I think that would fall into Category B.

[giblets]

Heck, what did the world do when Clinton and Bush killed off a million Iraqis? Not much other than some complaints. Unless you count 9/11 as a response, that is.

[Wezil]

It's tougher to do anything when the problem is on the far side of the planet. My government wasn't involved in GWB's misadventure so civil disobedience would have been pointless. As far as buying a ticket to some border country to help fight the Western Invaders - I'm a middle aged softie with bad knees and various other health issues. I'd be dead before I could catch my breath.

A domestic "What if?" I can answer would be regarding the death penalty. While I have no moral issue with frying the truly guilty/creepy I have seen too many miscarriages of justice in this country to support reintroduction of the DP. Sooner or later we would get the wrong person. Any reintroduction of the DP would certainly see me getting arrested in some sort of civil disobedience.

[Al B. Sure!]

Heck, what did the world do when Clinton and Bush killed off a million Iraqis? Not much other than some complaints. Unless you count 9/11 as a response, that is.

A million? I've seen no such data

[giblets]

A million? I've seen no such data

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_iraq_war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctions_against_Iraq#Estimates_of_deaths_due_to_sanctions

[MrFun]

Yeah, you rant about baby killers on the internet.



Poser.

[MrFun]

If I did that I would be thrown in jail for tax evasion and it would do nothing against the State that allows the murder of babies (the State doesn't make it mandatory, after all, it just allows). It wouldn't even be noted as a form of protest.

If I wanted to go to jail as a protest against Abortion I would do so in some other way... like kidnap a late term woman who was going to have an abortion and hold her until the baby was born.

I wouldn't be doing a lot of good there, and it would be violent (which means I won't do it), but at least there the good from saving a life is greater than the evil of incarceration (of myself and the mother to be).

JM

Martin Luther King Jr. was willing to go to jail for his convictions (nice pun there).

[Al B. Sure!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_iraq_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctio...e_to_sanctions

Sanctions don't count because that wasn't on us. That was on Saddam. The Iraq War casualties vary considerably.

[MrFun]

No. You are an ass.

And those who support abortion support baby killing.

Just the facts.

If I could exchange my life to end all abortion in the US, I would do so.

It isn't possible to make the exchange. It is difficult to make the exchange of my life for just stopping one abortion.

JM

Fvck you. I am pro-choice, but I do not get all giddy and excited when a woman chooses to have an abortion. I'd always rather a woman carries a child to term, if the only reason she wants to get an abortion is for convenience's sake.

Baby killing, is when you kill an infant at any moment after its birth. Abortion is when you end the life of an embryo or fetus.

[Jon Miller]

So Wezil, if you were German, it was the 40s, and you just discovered they were killing the Jews, would you:

Go up to the local magistrates/party officials/etc, tell them that what they were doing was wrong and that you would not support them anymore. Refusing to work/pay taxes/etc.
Take a gun and head to the nearest camp to rescue some Jews.
Take a gun and head to the local army station to fight back.
Go somewhere and light yourself on fire as a protest.

Or would you:

(Quitely) support non-Nazis, try to do what you could to save Jews without drawing attention to yourself (even if you couldn't save many), (quietly) talk to people and try to convince them that Jews were being killed and that it was wrong.

Note, I don't think that being loud about abortion being baby killing is generally what achieves the best results in my goal (to stop the baby killing). But it does need to be said sometimes, because otherwise people like yourself (and many others) do like most of the Germans did and say 'it isn't happening, it isn't real, it isn't important, etc).

People said it in Germany, people said it in South Africa, people have said it at basically all the great crimes in human history.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Martin Luther King Jr. was willing to go to jail for his convictions (nice pun there).

I am willing to go to jail (or die) for my convictions too.

King didn't go up to the government as a young man with out any voice and say 'I hate what you are doing to black people, you had better put me in jail because I am going to break the law'. He only was willing to go to jail for his cause. To help achieve his dream.

Show me were me heading to jail would save one life.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Fvck you. I am pro-choice, but I do not get all giddy and excited when a woman chooses to have an abortion. I'd always rather a woman carries a child to term, if the only reason she wants to get an abortion is for convenience's sake.

Baby killing, is when you kill an infant at any moment after its birth. Abortion is when you end the life of an embryo or fetus.

Baby killing is when you kill a baby.

Whether it has taken a breath or not.

JM

[Wezil]

Too many "what ifs?". Age, gender, profession, assets, resources, connections...etc.

Your current position is not a "what if".

Besides the obvious Godwinization...

[Jon Miller]

Yes.

I don't have assets, connections, resources, nor am I in a profession where I would be listened to on this subject.

If I was King or Gandhi (after they were leaders), it would be different.

Are you asking me why I don't go take leadership? I don't really think I have those talents. I don't inspire people or convict them. I don't have backing/etc.

Not being a leader doesn't mean that I don't hold the beliefs I do.

JM