Will the real Christians like Father Michael Ryan please stand up?

[giblets]

So you missed the part in my second paragraph where everything but the first sentence could apply just as well to a '3 month old' baby as to a '-1 month old' baby?

JM

Hardly any -1 month old babies get aborted so I don't really care.

[Jon Miller]

Even stranger: this religious person has learned the limitations of throwing epithets at people, and can see when a tactic isn't working.

I seem to have gotten a much much much stronger response from factually describing abortion as baby killing than the decades I spent responding more 'reasonably'.

Maybe it isn't doing any good.

But there is a reason why he is ignoring you and not ignoring me.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Hardly any -1 month old babies get aborted so I don't really care.

Hardly any innocents get killed by the state for DP, so you support the DP?

Hardly anyone gets killed by the police, so you don't care when they kill a black person/etc.

I agree, when you compare things, you have to consider the economics.

What I would 'reasonably' suggest is that the state offer the following:

The mother gets 3000 dollars.
The mother gets her tubes tied.
The baby is given up for adoption (actual babies without medical problems are actually in great demand for adoption).

JM

[giblets]

Are you suggesting buying the babies from mothers? If the babies are worth money why should the mother's tubes be tied?

[giblets]

Maybe the anti-abortionists should set up a campaign where they "sponsor a fetus" by agreeing to adopt it and paying the mother for it. Lives are at stake.

[Jon Miller]

Are you suggesting buying the babies from mothers? If the babies are worth money why should the mother's tubes be tied?

I am suggesting bribing mothers to keep them from killing their young as a measure to stop them from killing their babies. It shouldn't need to be done, but...

Making abortion illegal (although I bet it would help, but not protecting abortion would help even more) won't stop abortion, as has already been pointed out in other discussions.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Maybe the anti-abortionists should set up a campaign where they "sponsor a fetus" by agreeing to adopt it and paying the mother for it. Lives are at stake.

I would give money to such a cause.

JM
(Tubes being tied is an important addition, otherwise you are just encouraging her to have more children and hold them hostage for money from others.)

[Felch]

Why not finance research into extra-utero gestation? These days they can save premature babies as young as 24 weeks. Keep pushing that number back, and eventually women will be obsolete.

Women are the only oppressed group who think that civil rights means being given a license to kill. They are a monstrous evil, and the sooner we can bring them back under control, the better off we all will be. One day this will be a man's world once again, and women will exist only to provide us with sexual release. We'll keep the pretty ones in brothels and slaughter the ugly ones for cattle feed. Once the pretty ones get old or worn out, we can ship them straight to the abattoir. Can I get an AMEN!?

[Jon Miller]

Why not finance research into extra-utero gestation? These days they can save premature babies as young as 24 weeks.

This is a good point too. I haven't thought of that.

Although many people choose to abort rather than saving at 40 weeks.

Maybe a combination of this technology and legality? If there is already something medical being done, shouldn't it be to save a human and not to kill one?

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

This is a good point too. I haven't thought of that.

Although many people choose to abort rather than saving at 40 weeks.

Maybe a combination of this technology and legality? If there is already something medical being done, shouldn't it be to save a human and not to kill one?

JM

That would be crazy expensive.

[Jon Miller]

Maybe then the young would get more money spent on them and not the old?

JM

[Lorizael]

Why not finance research into extra-utero gestation? These days they can save premature babies as young as 24 weeks.

This part gets a

Keep pushing that number back, and eventually women will be obsolete.

Women are the only oppressed group who think that civil rights means being given a license to kill. They are a monstrous evil, and the sooner we can bring them back under control, the better off we all will be. One day this will be a man's world once again, and women will exist only to provide us with sexual release. We'll keep the pretty ones in brothels and slaughter the ugly ones for cattle feed. Once the pretty ones get old or worn out, we can ship them straight to the abattoir. Can I get an AMEN!?

This part gets a

[Al B. Sure!]

The average cost for healthy babies from birth to the first year of life is ~$4500. The average cost of premature babies in their first year of life is ~$50K. Now imagine if we started it from conception, with the technology for the first several weeks probably being a lot more expensive than the costs of a premature baby today.

[Jon Miller]

To pay for someone to live for a couple of months longer/etc, we pay a huge amount.

"From 1992 to 1996, mean annual medical expenditures (1996 dollars) for persons aged 65 and older were $37,581 during the last year of life versus $7,365 for nonterminal years."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1464043/

"If you are dying in Miami, the last six months of your life might well look like this: You'll see doctors, mostly specialists, 46 times; spend more than six days in an intensive care unit and stand a 27% chance of dying in a hospital ICU. The tab for your doctor and hospital care will run just over $23,000.
But spend those last six months in Portland, Ore., and you'll go to the doctor 18 times, half of those visits with your primary care doctor, spend one day in intensive care and stand a 13% chance of dying in an ICU. You'll likely die at home, with the support of a hospice program. Total tab: slightly more than $14,000."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2006-10-18-end-of-life-costs_x.htm

"The real costs of care are hard to calculate. Medicare's payments average about $28,000 in the last year of a person's life (Emanuel et al. 2002). Given that Medicare now pays about half of the costs (Maxwell, Moon, and Segal 2001; Lubitz et al. 2003), the average total cost is around $50,000 for the last year of life. "

http://www.growthhouse.org/sicktodeath/sick108.html

It has just gone up too.

I suggest it is much more worth it for babies than those who are dying.

JM

[Lorizael]

The average cost for healthy babies from birth to the first year of life is ~$4500. The average cost of premature babies in their first year of life is ~$50K. Now imagine if we started it from conception, with the technology for the first several weeks probably being a lot more expensive than the costs of a premature baby today.

Ah, but how much will said baby pay in taxes throughout its life?