Why isn't this murder?

[rah]

I think it's safe to say that whatever can be proved will decide the case.

[Aeson]

I think it's safe to say that whatever can be proved will decide the case.

The voice will trump all. There's no way it's murder 2 if Z is calling for help. There's no way it's not murder 2 if T is calling for help. Wounds or not, sketchy witnesses or not. The calls for help and the following shot are right there on the call. All that remains is to determine who's calling for help to determine the nature of the shot.

[Dinner]

Looking like second degree murder charges. That's what almost all of us figured.

Oerdin was the one demanding first degree, right?

Always wrong

I believe the main thrust was charging him with murder, dumb ass. Something which I urged and has now been done, my closeted homosexual friend. Want to know another thing I'll be right about? The Marines will never want you, it's obvious to them and everyone else you don't have what it takes, and nothing is going to cover that up. The truth hurts, I'm sure.

[Lorizael]

I believe the main thrust was charging him with murder, dumb ass. Something which I urged and has now been done, my closeted homosexual friend. Want to know another thing I'll be write about? The Marines will never want you, it's obvious to them and everyone else you don't have what it takes, and nothing is going to cover that up. The truth hurts, I'm sure.

Do you intentionally place at least one error in every post?

[Berzerker]

I dont think the yelling on tapes will be enough to overcome the evidence of self defense, I've seen fights where attackers and defenders yelled. Now if the voice was pleading for help, that would be of interest - but even if I started a fight and was kicking ass I might be yelling for help if I saw my victim had a gun. But given the wounds to Zimmerman and the lack of damage to Martin (other than a bullet of course) it looks like Martin was kicking Zimmerman's ass before the gun came out. I dont see anyway around that...

[rah]

Yep, reasonable doubt and all.

[Aeson]

Have you listened to the tape? It's 40+ seconds of someone crying out for help. The last yell for help is just before the gun is fired.

It's clear as day. If it was Z crying for help he was being dominated by T and only at the last was able to secure the gun and fire. If it was T crying for help he was being dominated by Z and it was an execution.

[rah]

I don't think it's that crystal clear.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Do you intentionally place at least one error in every post?

It allows an easy path to the perfect record held to date. Rather lazy actually, considering his better efforts at faux pas.

[kittenOFchaos]

Have you listened to the tape? It's 40+ seconds of someone crying out for help. The last yell for help is just before the gun is fired.

It's clear as day. If it was Z crying for help he was being dominated by T and only at the last was able to secure the gun and fire. If it was T crying for help he was being dominated by Z and it was an execution.

If Z was getting dominated, then he gets his gun out and then fires without warning - well, that still deserves time in jail.

Z was an accident waiting to happen.

[rah]

If Z was getting dominated, then he gets his gun out and then fires without warning - well, that still deserves time in jail.

According to Florida law, no he wouldn't.

In my opinion he does but my opinion isn't the law.

[Aeson]

If Z was getting dominated, then he gets his gun out and then fires without warning - well, that still deserves time in jail.

Not murder 2. (Maybe not anything.)

Z was an accident waiting to happen.

As I said earlier I don't think Z should ever have a gun again in any case. He clearly lacks the judgement necessary to be responsible with such power.

[Jon Miller]

If Z was getting dominated, then he gets his gun out and then fires without warning - well, that still deserves time in jail.

Z was an accident waiting to happen.

Not sure (might be nothing), but it is definitely not murder 2. At most manslaughter.

Could be 'wrongful death'?

JM

[Jon Miller]

If he had ANY wounds, it will be difficult to disprove any story he tells.
I personally think he's probably guilty but I don't think they can make the 2nd degree murder stick.

But that's the point of my challenge.

Predict now and gloat later.

If I start a fight, with a gun, me starting to lose the fight does not mean that I can use 'self defense' and get off free.

At least, it should not mean.

JM

[rah]

Jon, agreed but what can be proved? That's the double edged sword of a 2nd degree charge. It could be they won't risk it and plead out to manslaughter or risk it and maybe get off scott free.

I wouldn't be surprised if he got off but then lost a civil case.