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God doesn't play dice.
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I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh -
Oh, so gods actions are predetermined - that is an interesting claimOriginally posted by Kidicious View Post
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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The post you quoted addressed this: few people think human decisions are completely irrelevant. Partly because, throughout the Bible, people are constantly shown choosing to go one way or another, and then rewarded or punished for said choices. Case in point: Samson. God gave him unstoppable strength. It was totally Samson's call to screw it up by doing every single thing wrong. "Gotta stay ritually pure, huh? Okay then, lemme just spend my whole life touching dead animals! Also revealing my weakness to a woman after she's betrayed me like four times." Though you could say that's God's fault for making Samson a dolt.Originally posted by BlackCat View PostYep, that may be what he's saying, but I don't buy it. One thing is that something in the past can lead to a certain point, but there is a difference if you at this point chooses A or B volonterly or are dictated to choose a specific.
Actually quite strange to watch Matrix - Reloaded while discussing this
Now, where exactly human choice intersects with divine will/foreknowledge is a complex theological problem which frankly I am NOT going to have with a bunch of atheists. Certainly not while sober.Comment
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According to the laws of nature everything will end up in disorder.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Are you referring to Aeson's post #212 ? If yes, I really don't read that, if not, please tell wichOriginally posted by Elok View Post
About being sober, I think it's past 12 where you are, so start drinking
Edit: forgot to say that I don't mind discussing with religious nutcases when sober - you, on the other hand I prefer to discuss with having drinking a bit
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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No, I mean the very post you quoted, #222:
I.E., human choices are relevant whether it's God in charge or chaos, entropy, whatever. Oh, and it's 6:46 right now in Lima.Now, this is not the case for really strict Calvinists who think God controls every single thing directly, so that, say, Michael Jordan didn't even choose to harness his natural talents with continual training, it was God dragging him around the whole time. But as Kid and Imran noted, very few people actually believe that.Comment
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Heh, not exactly what I got out of #222. Though, going on those premises, that has happened in many other religions where people was awarded special strengths by a god. That kind of anecdotal evidence I have some problems with as evidence of a gods interference.With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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What is the passage in Paul's letters where he says we are more than conquerers? This is the verse that Rob Bell talks about in his book "Love Wins." This is just what someone told me who read the book, but Bell is suggesting that there is nothing we can do to seperate ourselves from God's love, because God wont allow it to happen. That's why I didn't want to read the book, because I'm neither a strict determinist or a universalist. I'm not opposed to reading it, but there are better books for me.
Romans 8Last edited by Kidlicious; November 19, 2011, 20:59.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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If you're a scientific determinist you believe everything is predictable. That is, nothing is actually random. Dice for example aren't actually random.Originally posted by BlackCat View PostOh, so gods actions are predetermined - that is an interesting claimI drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Human dices, probably not, but you'll expect a perfect god to have perfect dices that therefore would be fully randomOriginally posted by Kidicious View Post
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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What evidence do you have for randomness? What about Occam's Razor?I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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Honestly, if I had lived some 2-5 thousind years ago, I'll probably also have considered god as the main decider of life and cheerlily called for the sacrifice of a virginOriginally posted by Kidicious View Post
Anyway, I don't think Occam's razor can handle random events. Don't misiunderstand me - it can easily explain say evolution, but not a specific step in that.With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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I dont own any i* ****Originally posted by Elok View Post
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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So believe in randomness when there is no evidence and there are simpler explainations?Originally posted by BlackCat View PostHonestly, if I had lived some 2-5 thousind years ago, I'll probably also have considered god as the main decider of life and cheerlily called for the sacrifice of a virgin
Anyway, I don't think Occam's razor can handle random events. Don't misiunderstand me - it can easily explain say evolution, but not a specific step in that.I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett KavanaughComment
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