Greatest Sect of Christianity

[Al B. Sure!]

Sorry, are you saying that morality isn't relative to a given time/place? You've just been kicked out of the Atheist Club

There is no moral relativism in Christianity.

Check "Veritatis Splendor"

The moral theologian must therefore exercise careful discernment in the context of today's prevalently scientific and technical culture, exposed as it is to the dangers of relativism, pragmatism and positivism. From the theological viewpoint, moral principles are not dependent upon the historical moment in which they are discovered.

[loinburger]

There is no moral relativism in Christianity.

Check "Veritatis Splendor"

Read MacIntyre

Wait, what? Two Christians disagree on the subject of moral relativism??? Well then I suppose you'd better arbitrarily eject the relativist from Christianity rather than run the risk of having an original thought.

[Imran Siddiqui]

In that case, head coverings in church are not per se a position on morality - its the underlying reason to allow/ban head coverings in church that is.

[Elok]

An encyclical by JPII is supposed to represent the opinion of the entire Christian faith now, huh? You couldn't have at least dug up something pre-Reformation?

[Al B. Sure!]

An encyclical by JPII is supposed to represent the opinion of the entire Christian faith now, huh? You couldn't have at least dug up something pre-Reformation?

I'm using the largest (and one of the oldest) Christian denominations as an example of Christian thinking and I believe that is legitimate.

[Al B. Sure!]

The Church is also an authority. You'd denounce any random Protestant preacher I find that supports my position, but the Church?

[Elok]

The Church is also an authority. You'd denounce any random Protestant preacher I find that supports my position, but the Church?

Which Church? Mine hasn't been in communion with Rome for about a thousand years now, and in any case no Protestants are going to believe anything simply because a Papal encyclical says so. Even in circles which do honor Tradition, more weight tends to be given to more ancient sources. That Encyclical was published in the 1990s.

[Al B. Sure!]

Which Church? Mine hasn't been in communion with Rome for about a thousand years now, and in any case no Protestants are going to believe anything simply because a Papal encyclical says so. Even in circles which do honor Tradition, more weight tends to be given to more ancient sources. That Encyclical was published in the 1990s.

Like I said, square pegs in round holes.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You have absolutely no idea about the history and tradition of the Orthodox Church, do you Speer? It has just a valid a claim as to "the Church" as Rome. Just because you live in a Western culture, where Catholicism and Protestantism are cultural touchstones, doesn't mean that other traditions don't exist.

[Al B. Sure!]

You have absolutely no idea about the history and tradition of the Orthodox Church, do you Speer? It has just a valid a claim as to "the Church" as Rome. Just because you live in a Western culture, where Catholicism and Protestantism are cultural touchstones, doesn't mean that other traditions don't exist.

Here:

Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Kirill urged European religious leaders to make collective efforts to pursue the revival of Christianity within the continent.

"The Russian Orthodox Church proposes that European Christian communities unite to become partners of the states and European civil community in pursuing the revival of tangible connection between the human rights concept and the pan-European spiritual heritage," the Patriarch said at the Moscow meeting of the European Council of Religious Leaders.

According to him, only economic and political ties in Europe cannot be "a sustainable basis for the well-being of European community" and existing social values of human rights and rule of law and democracy may remain just "the forms which are unlikely to benefit in the conditions of moral relativism and sometimes may even cause harm."

[Kidlicious]

Uh huh. I slipped in 'praxis' and you didn't even notice.

However, I stand by what I said- you've gone from believing in the millenarian creed of one Jew to believing in the chiliastic creed of another. It's a journey I've observed in others, who've usually ended up as keen supporters of the more bug-eyed fringes of the main conservative grouping.

Are you a fortune teller now?

[Kidlicious]

So why not from Jesus?

The Bible isn‘t about slavery. It's about salvation. That said I think the Bible is very clear about how Christians should act in such cases.

You know ... why don't you start arguing from your own ideology. I can tell now how little you know about any religion. All you're doing is spreading misinformation.

[loinburger]

Random Person: I'm a Christian
Albert Speer: No you're not!
Random Person: Crap, I've been found out

Seriously, I have no idea what Al is trying to accomplish here

[Elok]

Yeah, technically I was only objecting to your formal fallacies. The OC tends to condemn "moral relativism," though honestly I think the word's something of a boogeyman. Also, it's generally used to refer to the values of a modern secular state and what's perceived as an attitude of careless permissiveness--personal liberty detached from personal responsibility, etc.

Catholic and some secular intellectuals attribute the perceived post-war decadence of Europe to the displacement of absolute values by moral relativism. Pope Benedict XVI, Marcello Pera and others have argued that after about 1960, Europeans massively abandoned many traditional norms rooted in Christianity and replaced them with continuously evolving relative moral rules. In this view, sexual activity has become separated from procreation, which led to a decline in the importance of families and to depopulation. As a result, currently the population vacuum in Europe is filled by immigrants, often from Islamic countries, who attempt to reestablish absolute values which stand at odds with moral relativism.[19] The most authoritative response to moral relativism from the Roman Catholic perspective can be found in Veritatis Splendor, an encyclical by Pope John Paul II. Many of the main criticisms of moral relativism by the Catholic Church relate largely to modern controversies, such as elective abortion.

(From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism )

As to changing values over time, we generally don't believe in that either--but nor do we believe in anyone's infallibility, including the church's. At least once, in the case of iconoclasm, I know we have reversed earlier decisions. Actually, the repeal of iconoclasm was a reversal of an earlier reversal of tradition. You know what? I'm not getting into this tonight. Maybe later.

[Egbert]

As Machiavelli said, to look at a mountain, stand in a valley, and to look at a valley, stand atop a mountain. Naturally, to know who the real Christians are, we should consult a twentysomething ex-Muslim atheist, just like far-right talk show hosts of an Evangelical persuasion know best what the Koran does and doesn't tell Muslims to do...

Alby for Pope.