Why do 90% of black people vote for Democrats?

[Felch]

According to Wikipedia (I know, not a real source) "The name Pakistan means Land of (the) Pure in Urdu and Persian." It's also an acronym for Punjab, North-West Frontier Province (Afghan Province), Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. In any event it was a name that the Pakis themselves came up with. They could have called themselves anything, and they chose Pakistan.

[Elok]

That's entirely moot once the word has been appropriated (as I understand it has in Britain) to be denigrating.

[Felch]

What is the Niger (i.e. Black) River named after?

From Wikipedia

The Niger is called Jeliba or Joliba "great river" in Manding, Orimiri or Orimili "great water" in Igbo, Egerew n-Igerewen "river of rivers" in Tuareg, Isa Ber "big river" in Songhay, and Oya in Yoruba. The origin of the name Niger, which originally applied only to the middle reaches of the river, is uncertain. The likeliest possibility is an alteration, by influence of Latin niger "black", of the Tuareg name egerew nigerewen, which is used along the middle reaches of the river around Timbuktu.[4][5] As Timbuktu was the southern end of the principal Trans-Saharan trade route to the western Mediterranean, it was the source of most European knowledge of the region.

Medieval European maps applied the name Niger to the middle reaches of the river, in modern Mali, but Quorra (Kworra) to the lower reaches in modern Nigeria, as these were not recognized as being the same river. When European colonial powers began to send ships along the West coast of Africa in the 16th and 17th centuries, the Senegal River was often postulated to be seaward end of the Niger. The Niger Delta, pouring into the Atlantic through mangrove swamps and thousands of distributaries along more than a hundred miles, was thought to be no more than coastal wetlands. It was only with the 18th century visits of Mungo Park, who travelled down the Niger River and visited the great Sahelian empires of his day, that Europeans correctly identified the course of the Niger, and extending the name to its entire course.

The modern nations of Nigeria and Niger take their names from the river, marking contesting national claims by colonial powers of the "Upper", "Lower" and "Middle" Niger river basin during the Scramble for Africa at the end of the 19th century.

[loinburger]

According to Wikipedia (I know, not a real source) "The name Pakistan means Land of (the) Pure in Urdu and Persian." It's also an acronym for Punjab, North-West Frontier Province (Afghan Province), Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. In any event it was a name that the Pakis themselves came up with. They could have called themselves anything, and they chose Pakistan.

If a word's meaning is all that matters, not its connotation, then do you interchangeably use the terms "******" and "black person" since they mean the same thing?

[Felch]

That's entirely moot once the word has been appropriated (as I understand it has in Britain) to be denigrating.

If people say, "American" or even "Yankee," and they say it with bitterness and hatred, are we suddenly not supposed to be called Americans or Yankees?

I mean, putting aside that Yankee isn't used as a self-descriptor by many of us. They're both names for what we are, and it's silly to act like they're abusive epithets.

[Felch]

If a word's meaning is all that matters, not its connotation, then do you interchangeably use the terms "******" and "black person" since they mean the same thing?

Again, show me ******stan on a map. Pakistan, i.e. The Land of the Pakis, is on a map, and it's a name that they chose for themselves. I didn't make it up.

When the hell did I even say that meaning trumps connotation?

[Elok]

Well, if it's a modification of the word American meant to imply derision, used only by people who want to imply derision--as is the case with "Paki" from "Pakistani," then no, it should not be used.

[loinburger]

Again, show me ******stan on a map. Pakistan, i.e. The Land of the Pakis, is on a map, and it's a name that they chose for themselves. I didn't make it up.

When the hell did I even say that meaning trumps connotation?

You're saying that it's fine to use a word that has taken on a racist connotation because the word had a non-racist connotation several years/decades ago. The Pakistanis didn't choose to make "Paki" a racial slur, but now that other people have made that decision for them it makes sense for a Pakistani immigrant to prefer to be addressed / referred to without the use of racial slurs.

Black people were fine with the use of the word "******" at one point, so they should be fine with the use of the word now. That's basically what you're saying about the word "Paki."

[Felch]

Calling somebody a Pakistani is contrary to standard English morphology. It comes across as grotesque to anybody with any common sense. The suffix -(i)stan should be dropped. If the preferred term were "Paks," I'd be fine with that, since that follows the pattern. But Pakistani is ****ing barbaric.

[Felch]

You're saying that it's fine to use a word that has taken on a racist connotation because the word had a non-racist connotation several years/decades ago. The Pakistanis didn't choose to make "Paki" a racial slur, but now that other people have made that decision for them it makes sense for a Pakistani immigrant to prefer to be addressed / referred to without the use of racial slurs.

Black people were fine with the use of the word "******" at one point, so they should be fine with the use of the word now. That's basically what you're saying about the word "Paki."

No, my point is this. When you call your country [X]-stan, and you do so with the understand that the formulation means "Land of the [X]," then you can't very well freak out when people call you [X]. How are you not understanding this point?

[loinburger]

No, my point is this. When you call your country [X]-stan, and you do so with the understand that the formulation means "Land of the [X]," then you can't very well freak out when people call you [X]. How are you not understanding this point?

Like I said, you're saying that connotation is irrelevant, which is a stupid thing to say.

[Felch]

If it's a self-descriptor, then yes, connotation is pretty damn irrelevant. I'm not freaking out if people say American and mean it in a nasty way. It's what I call myself, so how can I really freak out about the choice of words?

[loinburger]

Look, it's very simple: "Paki" has a negative connotation in the UK, so people from Pakistan would prefer not to be called "Pakis." Any other crap about morphology or "but they chose the word!" is irrelevant. And I can guarantee that nobody in the UK with ancestry from Pakistan personally chose the word "Paki" to refer to themselves, any more than somebody with black skin chose the word "******." Maybe their great-to-the-tenth power grandfather had a say in choosing the term, but they personally did not.

[Ben Kenobi]

Felch:

There's a Niger, and a Nigeria.

[Felch]

Choudhary Rahmat Ali chose the name, but enough people went along with it to make it a country. I didn't chose the name Germany, nor did the German people, but if somebody said I were a German-American, I'm not going to flip out over it. And German has had a pretty bad connotation at times. So **** you, loin, and come back to me when you find ******stan on a map.