Bin Laden To Be Announced As Kiiled

[PLATO]

I guess that is an even better point then....

[Asher]

"Visitors found this page by searching for:
the sheik is dead Ten years as dogged as the pursuit of
"

[SpencerH]

http://www.ciaonet.org/cbr/cbr00/vid...pts_index.html
Considering AQ's recruitment material makes no reference to spreading Islam to the world, but rather focuses on the perceived evils of the U.S. involvement in traditionally Arab and Muslim countries, I find the assertion that their ultimate goal is world conquest to be without basis.

Really? So you're saying the members of AQ are not moslem?

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya out of hand, in a state of submission..." (Koran 9:29).

Its a tenet of Islam to convert us by any means, including force. Christians may have tried the same but it's not a tenet of the religion.

[giblets]

Really? So you're saying the members of AQ are not moslem?

Its a tenet of Islam to convert us by any means, including force.

Sauce?

[Boris Godunov]

Really? So you're saying the members of AQ are not moslem?

Its a tenet of Islam to convert us by any means, including force. Christians may have tried the same but it's not a tenet of the religion.

Thanks for the superficial analysis. Just because there's a passage in their holy book that says something doesn't mean it's a central tenet to the religion, any moreso than it does for Christianity or Judaism or what have you. I don't see Jews out stoning adulterers these days, you know. And that of course is ignoring the issue of the passage you cited possibly being taken out of context and misinterpreted. Muslim theologians aren't as inclined as you are to take a literal view of it.

It's going to take more than isolating single passages from the Koran to demonstrate there's some sort of widely-held belief among Muslims that they should be conquering the world. While you might hate Muslims to the point you think that's all they want, your prejudices don't reflect reality.

[Whoha]

Since he isn't a muslim then they'd have no problems with us parading his carcass around, then dipping it in solid platinum and putting it on top of the WTC memorial.

[PLATO]

Interesting read....The al qaeda training manual. Clearly, it is focused on re-establishing the Caliphate. The jihad on "westerners" is due to their secular influence on the muslim people and not a desire to rule or convert them.

https://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/aqmanual.pdf

[giblets]

"Visitors found this page by searching for:
the sheik is dead Ten years as dogged as the pursuit of
"

"Bin Laden to be announced as Republican fan"

[notyoueither]

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Monday said co-operation with Pakistan helped lead the United States to the compound where Osama bin Laden was found and killed by U.S. special forces.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/clinton-says-pakistan-co-operation-helped-lead-to-bin-laden-compound/article2006541/

Does it really sound like they didn't know?

I think it does. From the article you linked to:

U.S. intelligence has been monitoring the compound for months, perhaps years, following a courier believed to be serving the al-Qaeda leadership. But Mr.Obama didn’t inform Pakistan that the helicopters carrying U.S. special forces were flying deep into the country. Only after Mr. bin Laden, three other men and a woman were killed and the al-Qaeda leader’s body flown out for verification using DNA testing, did Mr. Obama call Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari.

[SpencerH]

Thanks for the superficial analysis. Just because there's a passage in their holy book that says something doesn't mean it's a central tenet to the religion, any moreso than it does for Christianity or Judaism or what have you. I don't see Jews out stoning adulterers these days, you know. And that of course is ignoring the issue of the passage you cited possibly being taken out of context and misinterpreted. Muslim theologians aren't as inclined as you are to take a literal view of it.

It's going to take more than isolating single passages from the Koran to demonstrate there's some sort of widely-held belief among Muslims that they should be conquering the world. While you might hate Muslims to the point you think that's all they want, your prejudices don't reflect reality.

I could to go upstairs, search through reference books on Islam written by actual experts on the subject such as Prof Bernard Lewis and find other direct quotes from the Koran supporting my position. But why bother? Your ignorance is showing, per usual, and I wont waste my time educating a fool. I would submit that, by definition, the writings of the Koran and Hadith are the tenets of Islam. The fact that some followers of Islam do not follow all the tenets of the religion in question is no different than some catholics using condoms. Nowhere in the Bible or Torah does it say go out and conquer the non-believers (or words to that effect) but it does say that several times in the Koran and Hadith.

As to any prejudices I may or may not have, perhaps you'd prefer to call me a racist now? It's the typical argument used by the mentally challenged.

[Darius871]

The jihad on "westerners" is due to their secular influence on the muslim people and not a desire to rule or convert them.

Is that even what Boris was disputing? This all started with him responding to HC's trite "they mainly hate us because our beliefs in freedom and democracy" line, which apparently even you don't share. There's a difference between "mainly" hating us over the mere fact of our living based on secular values and mainly hating us for our perceived insertion of those values into the Muslim world by various means.

[PLATO]

Is that even what Boris was disputing? This all started with him responding to HC's trite "they mainly hate us because our beliefs in freedom and democracy" line, which apparently even you don't share. There's a difference between hating us over the mere fact of our living based on secular values and hating us for our perceived insertion of those values into the Muslim world by various means.

Yes, I agree. It seemed to devolve into a "They want to rule the World" argument and that is what I dispute. I believe that they could care less about us if we were not promoting secular (or maybe..."western"?) beliefs to the Muslim people. However it can arguably be said that the desire to prevent this is a desire to control the people in and of itself and really has no bearing whatsoever on the source.

[Darius871]

My favorite conspiracy fare of the day:

May 1, 2011: Osama Bin Laden declared dead
May 1, 2003: George W. Bush declares 'Mission Accomplished'
May 1, 1945: Adolf Hitler declared dead
May 1, 1776: The Illuminati brotherhood is formed in Bavaria

Oooooooooooooh!

[Docfeelgood]

why did it take so long?

[Whoha]

Pakistan.