Educate Ben about black women

[David Floyd]

But that's not in the original, but the BOR.

Dude, the Bill of Rights IS part of the original.

Agreed. There's nothing in the original that refers in any way to slavery at all, except through the distinction made between 'free' peoples, indentured servants and 'other' people. It doesn't even refer to race, presumably those who were black and considered to be free people would be entitled to vote as a free person. Nothing to indicate that women were considered to be less than 'free' people. It's just not there.

Yes, but what you are missing is that as originally constructed, the Constitution applied primarily to/against the federal government. The states were free to discriminate in any way they saw fit.

Actually, they were permitted to import whomever they wanted, slaves, freemen until 1808 for a head tax.

Well, yeah, you're right, but let's not be disingenuous. The Constitution allowed the importation of slaves until 1808, at which point the federal government was empowered to, and did, end the importation of slaves. I should have been more clear.

[David Floyd]

Also, the Constitution lays out the 3/5s clause - and while that is and was NOT intended as racism, but rather a check on Southern slaveholders, that is an example where the Constitution DOES mention slavery.

[DaShi]

Are you kidding me? I love the US. TX is awesome.

Then stop your *****ing.

[Ben Kenobi]

Gribbler, if the choice is between targetted tax cuts, or tax cuts across the board, tax cuts across the board are a far better deal.

[Ben Kenobi]

Also, the Constitution lays out the 3/5s clause - and while that is and was NOT intended as racism, but rather a check on Southern slaveholders, that is an example where the Constitution DOES mention slavery.

Actually, it refers to free persons, indentured servants, indians and 'other' people. It does not make reference to slaves and slavery.

[Ben Kenobi]

Dude, the Bill of Rights IS part of the original.

Not for the purposes of this discussion. The constitution without amendments including the first 10 in the BOR.

Yes, but what you are missing is that as originally constructed, the Constitution applied primarily to/against the federal government. The states were free to discriminate in any way they saw fit.

Exactly. The Federal government was not intended to become this massive overarching behemoth, power was supposed to reside in the States.

Well, yeah, you're right, but let's not be disingenuous. The Constitution allowed the importation of slaves until 1808, at which point the federal government was empowered to, and did, end the importation of slaves. I should have been more clear.

I'm not trying to nitpick. I get what you are saying, I believe the 10th is implied in the restrictions of the federal government, which is why the 10th stated it explicitly that separation of power was critical.

[David Floyd]

Not for the purposes of this discussion. The constitution without amendments including the first 10 in the BOR.

No, for the intents of any discussion the first 10 Bill of Rights are just as operable to the conversation as is, for example Article I or Article III.

Exactly. The Federal government was not intended to become this massive overarching behemoth, power was supposed to reside in the States.

Agreed.

I'm not trying to nitpick. I get what you are saying, I believe the 10th is implied in the restrictions of the federal government, which is why the 10th stated it explicitly that separation of power was critical.

The 10th (and for that matter the 9th) was simply the Founders way of ensuring that no one construed the Constitution and Bill of Rights to imply that the States and the People didn't retain all rights and powers not explicitly reserved to the federal government. That was actually a legitimate fear at the time, and part of the reason many people at the time opposed a specific enumeration of rights.

[MrFun]

Can't be arsed to go back to see who posted the comment about slavery not existing in US anymore. There is a sex slave trade as well as sweat shop trade going on in parts of US - it's obviously illegal, but it exists.

[David Floyd]

Well, OK, MrFun, but it's neither legal nor condoned either officially or unofficially. And I guarantee you that our law enforcement agencies, both state and federal, consider that kind of thing the lowest of the low.

[molly bloom]

At least anarchists are consistent. Apparently Ben thinks income tax is theft but sales and property tax are not.

La propriété, c'est le vol!

Unknown Texan anarchist cheesemaker (blessed was he...)

[Ben Kenobi]

Deleted.

[Asher]

You should've ended with (1) to have more impact, if that's what you're going for.

I am unmoved and unsurprised. I also called it -- you were an illegal in Texas...

[Ben Kenobi]

At least I know now who hacked the account.

[Asher]

This is Fez all over again.

[Al B. Sure!]

What the hell? Where did Ben's long post go?