Public Education: Vital for modern society or a scam?

[Darius871]

Right wing conservatives are constantly calling for the abolition of the department of education and all Federal education spending.

You are aware that federal education spending accounts for a very small portion of K-12, right? Would states not pick up the slack were it gone?

[Hauldren Collider]

this whole thread is toolish.

The federal DoE is one of the most irrelevant and unimportant agencies in government. And teacher's unions are the biggest problem with education by a long shot. None of this has anything to do with whether education should be public or private and with public education in the constitutions of most if not all states there is no serious debate about it.

[DaShi]

Thank you Ogie for your unsubstantiated opinions. Others should return to discussing solutions to the actual issues.

[Elok]

Scrap parent-teacher conferences, have it so parents can sit in on classes and monitor.

Leaving aside all the rest, NO. Helicopter parents are an enormous pain in the ass as-is. One parent with no sense of boundaries could ruin a class for twenty students.

[Dinner]

You are aware that federal education spending accounts for a very small portion of K-12, right? Would states not pick up the slack were it gone?

In K-12 yes it isn't huge though it does offer some great teachers pay bonuses and training bonuses plus the Feds are key for things like the Head Start program, the AP program, and helping schools pay for disabled or special needs care. For college level work it is the be all and end all since virtually every student relies heavily on grants and student loans provided by the Feds. Either way it is a very useful department especially since it provides individual parents a way to grade schools and see which are good and which are bad.

[Darius871]

In K-12 yes it isn't huge though it does offer some great teachers pay bonuses and training bonuses plus the Feds are key for things like the Head Start program, the AP program, and helping schools pay for disabled or special needs care.

I don't deny that a bit; my point was just that states could be expected to pick up the slack were the feds would leave a void. Or were some states not to do so, that's between their constituents and the state legislators who chose to "leave a child behind."

For college level work it is the be all and end all since virtually every student relies heavily on grants and student loans provided by the Feds.

Grants aside, student loans are not "spending" per se and could be entirely recouped were the interest rates made reflective of actual losses instead of the partial giveaway that they've become.

That, and the mere fact that a vast majority of loans are federally issued or federally guaranteed does not necessarily mean that a vast majority of postsecondary students would disappear in the absence of federal involvement. They're in those portfolios because they naturally chose the path of least resistance, and a wholesale shift to private creditors would only put some students out of the running because there concededly would be higher interest rates and/or shorter amortization periods across the board. It's difficult if not impossible to speculate on what the aggregate effect of a public-private transition would be because the only data we have comes from a market already permeated by this arbitrary distortion. The fact that the 2005 BAPCPA's extension of student loan non-dischargeability to even for-profit creditors is so recent makes prediction of typical interest rates and/or amortization periods in an all-private model even harder.

One speculation I'm more comfortable making is that an all-private model would at least have the benefit of not wasting gaziznillions of dollars on utterly worthless libarts degrees that will make a more enlightened burger-flipper and would instead incentivize getting real technical skills that would make us more competitive on the world stage, since private creditors concerned about losses would take much more care to tailor their loan terms to anticipated post-graduation income than does Uncle Sugar.

[Hauldren Collider]

By the way, magnet schools

(I only posted this because I saw Alby reading the thread and because Lonestar has a stick up his butt about how I got into the awesome school he didn't go to)

[Ben Kenobi]

Leaving aside all the rest, NO. Helicopter parents are an enormous pain in the ass as-is. One parent with no sense of boundaries could ruin a class for twenty students.

A parent who is willing to sit through all their kid's classes is going to homeschool them. Oversharing is the best way to cut down on that crap.

[dannubis]

(I only posted this because I saw Alby reading the thread and because Lonestar has a stick up his butt about how I got into the awesome school he didn't go to)

Yes. Daddy is richer than average. Great accomplishment.

[Jon Miller]

this whole thread is toolish.

The federal DoE is one of the most irrelevant and unimportant agencies in government.

Very irrelevant for the US being on the cutting edge of science...

http://www.sc.doe.gov/ascr/index.html
http://www.sc.doe.gov/ober/ober_top.html
http://www.sc.doe.gov/bes/bes.html
http://www.ofes.fusion.doe.gov/
http://www.science.doe.gov/hep/index.shtml
http://www.sc.doe.gov/np/index.shtml

Killing it is a good way to make sure that the US does not dominate science and technology in the years to come.

But I guess we could take over from the Thai and the Chinese the producing of shoes and t-shirts!



JM

[Hauldren Collider]

Yes. Daddy is richer than average. Great accomplishment.

As if that has anything to do with it. It's a public high school.

[Lorizael]

As if living in one of the richest parts of the United States has nothing to do with the quality of your public education.

[onodera]

As if living in one of the richest parts of the United States has nothing to do with the quality of your public education.

HC and Albie are like a slightly smarter and slightly stupider versions of Ben. You can't argue with them if you don't intend to troll.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Thank you Ogie for your unsubstantiated opinions. Others should return to discussing solutions to the actual issues.

Do you revel in constant idiocy, innaccuracy, and incorrectness?

An empassioned appeal for my attentions gains you nothing.

[DaShi]

Hit my mark!