West Philly abortion doc charged with eight counts of murder

[Barnabas]

Do you think they planned on getting pregnant? If they knew they'd get pregnant from that sex, you can bet your ass they'd have used a condom properly.

You seem to think abortions aren't traumatic for women? They're something EVERYONE wants to avoid if they KNOW about it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

Reasons for abortions
In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions.[28] Another study, in 1998, revealed that in 1987-1988 women reported the following reasons for choosing an abortion:[29]
25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
21.3% Cannot afford a baby
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
7.9% Want no (more) children
3.3% Risk to fetal health
2.8% Risk to maternal health
2.1% Other
According to a 1987 study that included specific data about late abortions (i.e. abortions “at 16 or more weeks' gestation”),[30] women reported that various reasons contributed to their having a late abortion:
71% Woman didn't recognize she was pregnant or misjudged gestation
48% Woman found it hard to make arrangements for abortion
33% Woman was afraid to tell her partner or parents
24% Woman took time to decide to have an abortion
8% Woman waited for her relationship to change
8% Someone pressured woman not to have abortion
6% Something changed after woman became pregnant
6% Woman didn't know timing is important
5% Woman didn't know she could get an abortion
2% A fetal problem was diagnosed late in pregnancy
11% Other.

If it is not a human, why are abortions traumatic then? Or do you mean as traumatic as getting your gallbladder removed?

[Hauldren Collider]

One thing Asher is also missing is the elasticities. How many of that 840,000 abortions is from people who would otherwise have used a condom or the morning after pill if they knew they couldn't get an abortion? And how many could be switched to condoms or birth control or morning after if the government started promoting those things? I think you could make a huge dent in that number.

[MikeH]

A $500 abortion they can afford but 50 cent condoms are cost prohibitive?

And as of right now, in a state like PA, you can get an abortion legally up to 24 weeks. What prevented these women from getting their abortions before 6 months into their pregnancy?

Two major ones.

1.They genuinely didn't know they were pregnant. This is one of the major ones. Womens periods aren't irregular, some continue to have some bleeding after pregnancy. I have a friend who found out she was 5 months pregnant only because she applied for a job at a Doctor's surgery and they do a pregnancy test as a matter of course because it's considered risky for women to work there, potentially exposed to disease. There are plenty of cases of women who didn't know they were pregnant giving birth.

2. Emotional trauma, in the case of eg. Rape can take a long time and counselling to get through before the woman can come to terms with what the consequences of what has happened are and what they want to do about it.

There are other completely valid reasons as well.

[Hauldren Collider]

Abortions in the case of rape or life of the mother are extremely rare, they are much more the exception than the norm and for this discussion I consider them a canard.

[MikeH]

One thing Asher is also missing is the elasticities. How many of that 840,000 abortions is from people who would otherwise have used a condom or the morning after pill if they knew they couldn't get an abortion? And how many could be switched to condoms or birth control or morning after if the government started promoting those things? I think you could make a huge dent in that number.

And what's the difference?

I think you seem to be missing Asher's point. He's asking what is the difference between using a morning after pill and having a 24 week abortion? You're potentially killing a viable baby either way. And what's the difference between either of those options and preventing fertilisation in the first place by using a condom?

And if you can answer all those, why is your view any more valid than anyone elses and why should the law be based around what you think, rather than what is the real cost and benefit to women, babies and society?

The fact is that if you ban abortions, they still happen illegally, at greater risk to women.

[Al B. Sure!]

Got this googling 6 months pregnant. It's from some woman's pregnancy journal or something; the shot of her at 6 months:



PREGNANT?! No way! I thought I was just getting fat!

[MikeH]

Abortions in the case of rape or life of the mother are extremely rare, they are much more the exception than the norm and for this discussion I consider them a canard.

That was the most extreme example of emotional trauma, there's lots of other things. Massive family/religious pressure, emotional blackmail from partners etc.

[MikeH]

Got this googling 6 months pregnant. It's from some woman's pregnancy journal or something; the shot of her at 6 months:

PREGNANT?! No way! I thought I was just getting fat!

I had a little bet with myself that you would ignore all facts and decide that it was impossible. You moron. I bet you didn't even search to see if I was right, just to try and support your believe it couldn't possibly be right.

[DinoDoc]

Doesn't matter to me. Arbitrary line is an arbitrary line. Just thought I read it was 16 somewhere.

You do realize that Canada is the outlier and most industrialized countries don't allow for abortions up to the 9th month, right?

[Al B. Sure!]

If someone actually gives birth without knowing that they are pregnant, they were self-delusional. They either lied to themselves or to others.

[MikeH]

http://health.msn.com/pregnancy/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100148059

Google gives 1,250,000 results for woman gives birth didn't know they were pregnant

[MikeH]

If someone actually gives birth without knowing that they are pregnant, they were self-delusional.

If someone thinks that doesn't happen they are wrong, ignorant, naive, closed minded, foolish and delusional.

[Al B. Sure!]

http://health.msn.com/pregnancy/arti...ntid=100148059

Google gives 1,250,000 results for woman gives birth didn't know they were pregnant

Liars and delusional people.


Well, we are dealing with women here, after all.

[MikeH]

FYI my wife is pregnant and I have recently done **** loads of research on pregnancy. Spoken to lots of other pregnant women, encountered a **** load of other pregnant women.

You know two things about it, Jack and Sh*t. And Jack just left town.

[MikeH]

I should add misogynist to the list. Outrageous.