Canada erects protectionist barriers to protect its faltering rock'n'roll industry.

[Asher]

I would be remiss if I didn't post the lyrics to one of my all-time favourite songs:

"Motorcycle Drive-by"

Summer time and the wind is blowing outside
in lower Chelsea
And I don't know what I'm doing in this city
The sun is always in my eyes
It crashes through the windows
And I'm sleeping on the couch
When I came to visit you
That's when I knew
That I could never have you
I knew that before you did
Still I'm the one who's stupid

And there's this burning
Like there's always been
I've never been so alone
And I've
Never been so alive

Visions of you on a motorcycle drive by
The cigarette ash flies in your eyes and you don't mind
you smile
And say the world it doesn't fit with you
I don't believe you
You're so serene
Careening through the universe
Your axis on a tilt
You're guiltless and free
I hope you take a piece of me with you

And there's things I'd like to do
That you don't believe in
I would like to build something
But you'll never see it happen

And there's this burning
Like there's always been
I've never been so alone
And I've
I've never been so alive

And there's this burning
There is this burning

Where's the soul I want to know
New York City is evil
The surface is everything
But I could never do that
Someone would see through that
And this is the last time
We'll be friends again
And I'll get over you
And you'll wonder who I am

And there's this burning,
Just like there's always been
I've never been so alone, alone
And I've, and I've
I've never been so alive

So alive

I go home to the coast it starts to rain I paddle out on the water
Alone
Taste the salt and taste the pain
I'm not thinking of you again
Summer dies and swells rise
The sun goes down in my eyes
See this rolling wave
Darkly coming
To take me
Home

And I never been so alone
And I've never been so alive

[Al B. Sure!]

Look at those monosyllabic nursery rhymes!

Sorry. I'm not a fan of vague PRETENTIOUS drivel that is the musical equivalent of this:

[Asher]

Look at those nursery rhymes!

Sorry. I'm not a fan of vague PRETENTIOUS drivel that is the musical equivalent of this:

You just aren't capable of understanding complex music. Music with many layers (The National is also fantastic here), with complex lyrics and substantive meaning.

Nursery rhymes is far more akin to rap...

[Asher]

Now let us analyze one of my favourite rap songs! Check out these complex lyrics.

"Got Your Money"
(feat. Kelis)

Oh baby
I dedicate this to all the pretty girls
All the pretty girls
Its on [echo]
All the pretty girls, in the world
And the ugly girls too
Cause to me your pretty anyways baby

[verse 1:]
You give me your number, I call you up
You act like your ***** don't interrupt
I don't have no trouble with you ****ing me
But I have a little problem wit you not ****ing me
Baby you know I'm gonna take care of you
Cause you say you got my baby, and I know it ain't true
Is it a good thing? no its bad *****
For good or worse, makes you switch
So I walk on over with my crystal
*****es, niggas put away your pistols
Dirty wont be having it in this house
Cause ***** I'll cripple your style
Now that you heard my calm voice
You couldn't get another nigga, hoochie wont get moist
If you wanna look good and not be bummy, girl you better give me that money
Aooow...

[hook: Kelis]
Hey, dirty, baby I got your money
Don't your worry, I said hey.
Baby I got your money
[X2]

[verse 2:]
Yo! so I glanced at the girls, girls glanced at me
I whispered in their ear, wanna be with me?
You wanna look pretty though, in my video
Ol' dirty on the hat and I let you all know
Just dance! if you caught up in the holy ghost trance
If you stop! I'm gonna put the killer ants in your pants
I'm the O-D-B as you can see
Every eye, don't you be watching me
I don't want no problems cause I put you down
In the ground where you can not be found
I'm just dirt dog trying to make sum bunny
So give me my streaks and give me my honey
Radio, yes all day, everyday
Recognize I'm a fool and ya love me!
None of you nmph better look at me funny
Nmph you know my name now give me my money!

[hook X2]
Dirty: sing it, sing it girls! (during hook)
Just shake it right now!
Somebody else: if dirty want his money
I think you all should give him his money
Dirty: that's how I like girl

Sexy, sexy, sexy!
Sexy, sexy, sexy!

Sexy, sexy, sexy!
Sexy, sexy, sexy!

[verse 3:]
Yo, yo!
Nigga playing in the club like this all night
*****es put your ass out let me hold it tight
You looking at my wrist saying "its so nice"
The price ***** is diamonds shining disco light
You better help me solve this problem
Or I'm gonna get this money and rob them
Lucky dig when I won the lotto
Ran up on my car for carrying (ryllos?)
You can call me dirty, and then lift up your skirt
And you want some of this dirty, god made dirt and dirt bust yo ass
Stop annoying me, yeah! I play my music loud
It takes the bastard ol' dirty, to move the crowd
They say he had his dick in his mouth
Eddie Murphy told me that back in the house
But give me my money!

BUT LOOK! HE RHYMES! SOOOOO complex.

[Al B. Sure!]

I wasn't aware that Humpty-Dumpty featured polysyllabic rhymes!

And lie to yourself all you want, Asher. Your music came from the same cultural background as Jackson Pollock.

[Al B. Sure!]

I SAID GOOD RAP, MOTHER****ER!

ODB was a TERRIBLE rapper. He was just a character.

[Asher]

I wasn't aware that Humpty-Dumpty featured polysyllabic rhymes!

And lie to yourself all you want, Asher. Your music came from the same cultural background as Jackson Pollock.

It's not abstract, really. It's highly metaphorical and requires some actual thought to decipher. It's something I love about great music.

It's the difference between watching a great movie, and watching "The Clumps".

[Al B. Sure!]

A 1-minute verse in which Elzhi from Slum Village explains how to rap.

Actually listen to it. It's 1 minute! Notice his rhyme schemes and his use of polysyllabic rhymes.

Tell me that **** isn't TECHNICALLY COMPLEX.

Tell me that's nursery rhymes. If it is, then I need to go back and read Humpty Dumpty because there must be some real cool polysyllabic rhymes and ABBA schemes all up in there.



You have to be attentive to rap in ways that you don't have to be to listen to other genres of music.

[Cort Haus]

Good rap songs are generally more lyrically complex than rock songs for the simple reason that the lyrics are basically the only thing the rapper brings to the table and lyrical complexity features more prominently in rap songs.

And by lyrical complexity I mean in an objective technical sense of use of poetic devices such as polysyllabic rhymes, assonance and consonance, meter, and metaphor.

In fact, correct me if I am wrong but the use of polysyllabic rhymes/assonance/consonance is very rare in rock lyrics but is virtually standard in all but ****** South rap.

At least you didn't claim that meter and metaphor were rare in rock music. You are also correct to state that lyrics are the only thing the rapper brings to the table. As I said to you recently, rap is essentially poetry, not music, and as such one would certainly expect a focus on poetic devices such as assonance and consonance, what with there being the near complete absence of music going on, other than some off-the-shelf wallpaper groove, or a piece of music written by someone else.

So, if you can accept that rap is poetry rather than music, you should be able to make the step towards stopping making the claim that it is better than other sorts of music. Because it isn't really music.

[Al B. Sure!]

If anyone has a sense of being open-minded, check Elzhi break it down some more:



Start at 50 seconds in and see what he does.

[Cort Haus]

Furthermore, just because certain poetic devices are being deployed, it doesn't make the actual content any better than a lyric that doesn't have a load of internally-rhyming vowel sounds within a given line or an abundance of alliteration, because these devices are options, and shouldn't be compulsory. Any literary or musical tricks are often best used sparingly anyway, and over-using them is often considered to be a reliance on style over substance, to coin a phrase used above.

An example of over-reliance in rock would probably be the over-lengthy note-bending guitar solo from the 70's/80's, often accompanied by noodly technical complexity which informs the listener that the artist considers himself to be very clever, or technically sophisticated, but forgets that the output can actually be just a tedious and repetitive cliche, and a caricature of a given genre's worst habits of self-indulgence.

[Al B. Sure!]

At least you didn't claim that meter and metaphor were rare in rock music. You are also correct to state that lyrics are the only thing the rapper brings to the table. As I said to you recently, rap is essentially poetry, not music, and as such one would certainly expect a focus on poetic devices such as assonance and consonance, what with there being the near complete absence of music going on, other than some off-the-shelf wallpaper groove, or a piece of music written by someone else.

So, if you can accept that rap is poetry rather than music, you should be able to make the step towards stopping making the claim that it is better than other sorts of music. Because it isn't really music.

Your distinctions are arbitrary. Were medieval bards poets or singers? Were African griots? Worker calls and chants? What about the Islamic Adhan? Bluesmen? Jazz poetry? What about some 20th century poetry that developed alongside 20th century music?

Poets like Langston Hughes incorporated the syncopated rhythms and repetitive phrases of blues and jazz music into their writing.

So is Langston Hughes but a mere poet even though he incorporated aspects of jazz and blues into his art?

Transcend these arbitrary barriers, Cort Haus. Why separates poetry and music? Poetry on paper is not music maybe? But what about Spoken Word? Rap is spoken word poetry, yes. But the act of speaking it makes it audible which means where is the distinction?

[Cort Haus]

I'm not saying it's a binary thing. I did use the word "essentially". Think of a position on a line, or an intersection on a venn diagram or something.

[Asher]

A 1-minute verse in which Elzhi from Slum Village explains how to rap.

Actually listen to it. It's 1 minute! Notice his rhyme schemes and his use of polysyllabic rhymes.

Tell me that **** isn't TECHNICALLY COMPLEX.

It is NOT lyrically complex.

Rhyming is something children are obsessed with. Doesn't make it complicated or complex.

You have to be attentive to rap in ways that you don't have to be to listen to other genres of music.

That is clearly not true at all. Rap songs are almost always incredibly simple in structure, in theme, and in lyrics.

Great rock music is where you need to pay attention to it to truly enjoy it. The people who diss The National, for instance, probably aren't paying attention to all of the fantastic music going on in the song outside of the main melody of the singing. The music is expressive and complementary, it's not there because "it sounds cool". In a song about anxiety, the violins actually sound nervous or anxious. The combination of all of the layers can create a very "tense" song that builds up, and finally releases in a way that's vaguely cathartic.

Rapping, by contrast, is very two dimensional.

[Al B. Sure!]

I don't know what you consider 'lyrical complexity' but technical complexity defined as the usage of polysyllabic rhymes and other poetic devices is greater in that verse than in any rock song I have ever heard.

Look at the use of alliteration in this song. Ignore the DJ talking for the first 30 seconds but he explains what rapper Papoose is doing.

The letters of the alphabet are called out and Papoose raps several rhyming bars using only words that begin with the present letter. I'd challenge Cort Haus to claim that such heavy spoken alliteration combined with his rhymes doesn't have a musical quality.

I want to see Bob Dylan do something like this:



And you're right. That is purely a case of style over substance and it was the song that put Papoose on the map because it highlighted his ability.

That's a difference in mindset between rap and rock. I am sure you are familiar with rap battles; think of it like dueling banjos. Demonstrating your technical mastery of words is huge in rap.

I mean look at this:

Alert, assassins at large allegedly
Automatic artillery, angrily aimed and aggressively
Accurate AK's angled all ways
Adversary afraid as active ammunition abraise
Accumulated an alias after arrested
Accompanied armed accessory, as an adolescent

Seriously.

cover cowards' corners collecting cash
Confirmed convicts committing crimes clapping cats
Creeping cashiers causing characters comas, capping crabs
Chaos causing, clearly commanding Cee-Lo
Cocaine capsule caps colored, capturing customer's C-Notes
Confiscating combination, counting cream capulating
Cocking calibur chromes creating casualties