Religion: Real or Fake

[Lonestar]

I don't accept the premise of the quote. It doesn't take into account God love for us, a love so great he risked everything by giving us the choice to do good and to do evil. Here I could do a long essay on free will and God voluntarily limiting himself, but it has been done countless times before and wouldn't change the base fact; you get very angry because someone believes something you find stupid. Don't I have the same right to follow my beliefs as you do?

Nikolai, if you saw someone being murdered on the street and you did nothing, would you agree that you were taking part in an evil act? Evil occurs when good men do nothing.


But the Divine Progenitor of the Universe gets a pass? Lots of "love" for his creation there.

[MOBIUS]

I don't accept the premise of the quote. It doesn't take into account God love for us, a love so great he risked everything by giving us the choice to do good and to do evil. Here I could do a long essay on free will and God voluntarily limiting himself, but it has been done countless times before and wouldn't change the base fact; you get very angry because someone believes something you find stupid. Don't I have the same right to follow my beliefs as you do?

Frankly I think you don't accept the premise of the quote because it might lead you to question your faith: either your god is evil, or he/she/it is undeserving of being called god.

[Lonestar]

Frankly I think you don't accept the premise of the quote because it might lead you to question your faith: either your god is evil, or he/she/it is undeserving of being called god.

Shhh!

God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That, sir, is not free will. It would be akin to a man telling his girlfriend, 'Do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out.' When a man says this we call him a psychopath and cry out for his imprisonment/execution. When a god says the same, we call him loving and build churches in his honor.

[MOBIUS]

Nikolai, if you saw someone being murdered on the street and you did nothing, would you agree that you were taking part in an evil act? Evil occurs when good men do nothing.


But the Divine Progenitor of the Universe gets a pass? Lots of "love" for his creation there.

Maybe god is a 77 year old granny from the UK?

[Wezil]

As for Wezils sunday shopping example: Advocating a day where society slows down and breath is totally okay. The reasons can be God's commandment. But the debate has to be along the line of "it's good for everyone to slow down and breathe from time to time and society should make arrangements for that to happen". But the arguments need to be rational.

In this province it was called "The Lord's Day" and took many years of court challenges to finally bring to an end. How do you suppose it came into existence? Atheists looking for a clever name for a day off?

[Lonestar]

Maybe god is a 77 year old granny from the UK?

Or the cast from Seinfield.

[Nikolai]

Nikolai, if you saw someone being murdered on the street and you did nothing, would you agree that you were taking part in an evil act? Evil occurs when good men do nothing.


But the Divine Progenitor of the Universe gets a pass? Lots of "love" for his creation there.

But then your premise is that he did nothing. The Bible claims he did something, just that it was more than just intervene as a man would. He went to the core of the problem; sin(which is to do evil towards your fellow beings at the very core of it) and gave a solution to it.

[Ben Kenobi]

You rang?

[Nikolai]

Frankly I think you don't accept the premise of the quote because it might lead you to question your faith: either your god is evil, or he/she/it is undeserving of being called god.

You are free to belive that. I think the core "problem" here is that I don't accept the base line for the argument, as I see it from a completely different angle; the religious one. And it is hard to connect and explain those two, especially in a for me foreign language.

[Ben Kenobi]

Nikolai, if you saw someone being murdered on the street and you did nothing, would you agree that you were taking part in an evil act? Evil occurs when good men do nothing.

Lonestar:

How do you know what is good and what is evil?

[Lonestar]

But then your premise is that he did nothing. The Bible claims he did something, just that it was more than just intervene as a man would. He went to the core of the problem; sin(which is to do evil towards your fellow beings at the very core of it) and gave a solution to it.

What? No he didn't.

The 'solution' is "Obey my every word or you burn in Hell."

Alternatively "Sin all you like, but if you repent on your deathbed then it's all A-OKAY."

Conveniently neither of those solutions is verifiable.


Assuming that

(1)the Divine Progenitor exists
(2)He revealed himself to a bunch of mooks in the desert

He is still twiddling his fingers going "well don't worry about your crappy lives. If you listen to me it'll get better after you die. Or you'll just continue to suffer. Your choice! You know I love ya."

[MOBIUS]

You are free to belive that. I think the core "problem" here is that I don't accept the base line for the argument, as I see it from a completely different angle; the religious one. And it is hard to connect and explain those two, especially in a for me foreign language.

As Lonestar has amply pointed out, your god rules by fear. Not only does he not exist (thankfully!), but if he did, he'd be some sort of evil genocidal dictator...

[MOBIUS]

You rang?

Woohoo! Ben Kenobi is back!

[Lonestar]

Lonestar:

How do you know what is good and what is evil?

Evil is in hurting others unnecessarily. I'd say that twiddling your thumbs while you're in a position to stop someone from getting hurt counts.

[Ben Kenobi]

Evil is in hurting others unnecessarily. I'd say that twiddling your thumbs while you're in a position to stop someone from getting hurt counts.

I wasn't looking for a definition of evil. I was asking how do you know this is evil? Did someone tell you that this was wrong? Did you figure it out yourself?

If I were a nihilist I could argue that hurting people means that they are weak. They must become stronger. So pain is a necessary fact of life, and you must overcome pain to get stronger.