Religion: Real or Fake

[giblets]

The Juniors were +40 percent. The HS students were +10 percent. If they were of lower socioeconomic status than the HS students then your thesis is in trouble.

Ben, the paper said that parochial high schoolers had lower socioeconomic status.

Besides, in the conclusion the paper admitted the possibility that the difference results from families that choose parochial schools generally having a greater commitment to education, rather than the schools actually having higher quality. This makes sense considering that families that make such a choice have to pay tuition. Families with less commitment to education are much less likely to pay to send their kids to school when they can send them to public school for free.

[MOBIUS]

So you acknowledge that the Great and all Powerful Oz God kills innocents more or less because doing anything else is "just too hard".

And God doesn't give people a choice. I mentioned it before, his choice is "Love me or I'll BLOW YOUR ****ING BRAINS OUT!".

The difference is that if a human said that he would be locked up, but the Divine Progenitor of the universe? He gets a pass.





Wow dude, you are dumb.

He is precise enough in his killing that he can kill the first born of everyone in Egypt(including the majority of the population that has little to nothing to do with the Jewish enslavement) but he can't launch a decapititation strike on the leadership, leaving a few left to ponder the situation and release the Jews? He can't even just kill all the guards at the camp?"

He either isn't God(capital G) or is a terrible monster who kills whole scale for the hell of it.





Did you know that US Servicemen are allowed to shoot back and even call in airstrikes if they are taking fire from Mosques? The Temple would have been one of the most sturdily built buildings in Jerusalem, and would have been ideal for the rebels to hole up in.






So there WERE those who had a concept of religious freedom before the Christians, is what you are saying?







Let's see what the Christian writer Sozomenos had to say about Julian:

"It was from these motives that Julian recalled from exile all Christians who, during the reign of Constantius, had been banished on account of their religious sentiments, and restored to them their property that had been confiscated by law. He charged the people not to commit any act of injustice against the Christians, not to insult them, and not to constrain them to offer sacrifice unwillingly. He commanded that if they should of their own accord desire to draw near the altars, they were first to appease the wrath of the demons, whom the pagans regard as capable of averting evil, and to purify themselves by the customary course of expiations."

What a terrible, terrible man Julian was. Possibly considered terrible because he converted back to Paganism.

But I'm glad you're admitting that Religious Freedom is NOT a hallmark of the Christians, and it is perfectly okay to get revenge...even though "Vengeance shall be The Lords".




So? Coincidentally Christians generally ATTACK everyone, including each other. This doesn't mean that Christians got some kind of persecution that the Jews, Hindus, or Moslems didn't get.




No one expects that, they only expect that of Christians who completely ignore the Old Testament and selectively pick Jesus quotes in order to make the religion sound all kumbayaya.





So you concede that the concept of religious freedom and tolerance did NOT originate with Christianity?





Yup. The Edict of Toleration by Gallienus(Pagan Emperor)

And the Edict of Toleration by Galerius(Pagan Emperor who ended the Diocletion Persecutions).

Oh, and the guy who according to you that granted "religious freedom" also ordered the summary execution of eunuch priests in Egypt and destroyed and pillaged temples, including the Temple of Aphrodite in the Lebanon and equipped christian churches with the plunder. Sure sounds like a great believer in religious freedom.

Oh, and his immediate successor decreed that anyone who sacrificed to a pagan god would be executed on the spot.





Well there is no evidence Hitler saying any anti-Christian thing from a first hand source, but that doesn't stop idiots from going NUH-OH HITLER WAS A ATHEIST/PAGAN.





No he didn't, and there was no civil war. The only civil war he fought was against his Christian predecessor(spoiler: He won).




I didn't say that, and I would like for you to answer the ****ing question.





So the Soviets were not atheists? Also, got ya, more religious tolerance from a Christian: Christians who claim there are Christian are not Christian unless they follow my narrow band of it!





Holy Crap, I answered this on page 45, to YOU.

By the way, one cannot be "mad" at something that doesn't exist. I am merely pointing out that the "God" you worship is a horrible monster. And you ****ing know it but are rationalizing it away under the aegis of "free will".





Good, but you know what? They don't come to my door and knock.

And by the by, they are not protesting a religion, they are protesting their tax dollars being spent to support a religious view that is not their own.





Guess that point went flying over your head, once again. When the Nazi Regime killed religious men it was because the INDIVIDUALS were acting as enemies of the state.





You're splitting hairs. Hitler accepted Jesus as the Messiah, which would be more than enough for most protestant denominations. Crap, even today the Catholic Church doesn't refer to protestants as non-Christians.





So? I watch the X-Files that doesn't mean I'm expecting an alien invasion in 2012.



I posted SEVERAL first and second hand accounts that indicated that he believed he was a Christian in response to DD's dumbass post. You are posting stuff that might be drawn from a crappy special on the History Channel, and are beign incredibly vague and non specific.





Your thesis is that they are intolerant because they are atheists and not because they are a bunch of men who want to hold onto power no matter what.





(1)This is a government agency, not a parochial school
(2)That isn't in a (military) Chaplain's job description.




The guy who had as a campaign slogan "My Governor is a Jewish Cowboy" ? Boy, he totally isn't placing emphasis on a religious identity there, is he?




(1)The judicial rulings on the United States Constitution(well, the first Amendment) explicitly separates church from state, and Blue Laws are certainly a resort of religious meddling. Unlike other countries(say, Canada) "God" is not mentioned in the Canada.

(2)And I am referring to mostly rural towns, yes. But it isn't limited to the South.





That seems to be a really fancy way to say "communities have a right to enforce commerce based upon religious rules".





Nope, I don't believe you. You see, while there are numerous first person accounts of some founding fathers expressing religious views, I saw on a ****ty History channel that Washington was a member of the occult(Freemason), and therefore not a Christian.

Tell me if that reasoning there is at ALL familiar.





Yup. 23 of the sitting 32 Senators were present, and all voted to ratify it.



Yet you find it perfectly acceptable the state to tell spend my money support a religion I don't follow...interesting.





Turns out being at the low end of "first world" means that costs are cheap?




In Singapore?






You support the right of a community to restrict commerce based upon religious mumbo-jumbo.




"Man! How could you have not anticipated that ****ing walmart would be closed on a Sunday because of religious mumbo-jumbo?"




"We're having problems with Public schools, therefore we should just abolish them entirely.






Scalia is on record as saying that he wouldn't "Prosecute Jack Bauer for torture", so we know how well his grasp on reality is and what he thinks of civil rights. Scalia has a stated goal to "prevent the excise of religion from public life" , and is an active part of Catholic groups. I'm sure that he is modestly influenced by what his priest tells him.




I believe I left open the possibility of Christian-style Madrassas, thank you for confirming that that is your goal.





One is derived from empirical evidence and the other is derived from the ramblings of loons in the desert several thousand years ago. There is a SLIGHT difference.





I guess that explains why so many creationists think that "Intelligent Design" is "science", huh?




I've met Justice Thomas, he is a affable, good natured man. He is certainly someone I would invite to a BBQ. He is also someone who is devoutly religious and allows that to cloud his judicial rulings and statements.





So is this your way of sticking your fingers in your ears and going ALALALALALALALAL I CAN'T HEAR YOU?






Paying taxes is part of a social contract, whereby SOME of my money is taken away to pay for programs that benefit many. The difference is that my money should not go to support a religious view which is, well, bull****. I do not believe that God exists because there is zero evidence, zilch, nada, that he does, and so my money should not be going to support something that literally DOES NOT EXIST.





Yes Ben. Income tax is EXACTLY like slavery. You should build a time machine(I hear God has one) and go back in time and tell Frederick Douglass that.




"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."

And the Constitution is what we base the functioning of our country on, not a mission statement.






Which doesn't stop the "Small Guv'ment" Virginia State Government types from raiding the Bank of Fairfax to support the rest of Mississippi North.

Holy crap! How long did it take you to write that post!!?

[Kidlicious]

I'm not saying Catholics are Nazis. And Hitler talked about God in speeches, so he doesn't strike me as an avowed atheist.

You miss the point. It doesn't matter if he believed in God, and no one is calling him an atheist. It simply doesn't matter what he called himself. It doesn't matter for our purposes at all, yet it's the kind of thing you atheists keep bringing up as though it did matter. Where's the beef?

[giblets]

You miss the point. It doesn't matter if he believed in God, and no one is calling him an atheist. It simply doesn't matter what he called himself. It doesn't matter for our purposes at all, yet it's the kind of thing you atheists keep bringing up as though it did matter. Where's the beef?

I've seen religious people mention Stalin or China as if that has anything to do with this subject.

[Kidlicious]

I've seen religious people mention Stalin or China as if that has anything to do with this subject.

Sure. I'd have to see the context though. The case that I'm familiar with is atheists claiming that religion is the cause of all the evil in the world and then religious people saying, "look at Stalin etc..."

But what does that have to do with what you've done in this thread.

I'm used to people creating caricatures and then arguing against them, and so are a lot of people on the internet these days.

[giblets]

Sure. I'd have to see the context though. The case that I'm familiar with is atheists claiming that religion is the cause of all the evil in the world and then religious people saying, "look at Stalin etc..."

But what does that have to do with what you've done in this thread.

I'm used to people creating caricatures and then arguing against them, and so are a lot of people on the internet these days.

What are you insinuating that I've done in this thread? Say that Hitler may have been a Christian?

[Docfeelgood]

Kidicious your very obtuse. You should listen more with your ears and not your mouth.
No offence.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, the paper said that parochial high schoolers had lower socioeconomic status.

Even so they still outperformed the public schoools by a statistically significant amount. Seems to me that the +10 percent bonus is parochial schools themselves, and +30 percent is parental involvement.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So God is just a time traveler, as opposed to all-knowing and all-powerful? Because one is a lot different than the other.

I'm not entirely sure how you don't get this. All knowing and all powerful doesn't mean God won't afford you the free will to make your own decisions. Just abecause he knows your choices (our concept of time doesn't exist for God), doesn't change your free will any.

[Wezil]

It is an interesting argument. I'll wade in with my B-level filosofy.

Maybe you just think you are actually making a choice (free will) since there really is only one "correct" answer and god already knows what it is?

[Imran Siddiqui]

But if God doesn't directly act in your mind, how is he controlling it? The "correct" answer is only "correct" because that's what happens... but God just simply knows it... he didn't determine it.

[Wezil]

I'm going around this circle in my head and now my brain hurts.

[Elok]

The bottom line is, foreknowledge doesn't necessarily preclude free will. The only way the two conflict is in a hypothetical situation where a man asks God something like: "I'm going to hold up my hand. Will it be open or closed?" In which case the answer may be "you will modify your behavior based on what I tell you, to make whatever answer I give incorrect. Except, now that I told you that, if I say 'open,' you will dutifully hold it up open to spite me for saying you'd spite me by giving the 'wrong' answer." Or the person might hold it open out of obedience, or hold it up closed after all for a sort of triple-cross, or whatever. Anyway, there's no other way I can think of in which the two conflict.

[Agent Sox]

I don't know about God and free will and all that but I think we might believe there's free will without it existing. Like if we're making choices based on the world we see but that's not the real world, so our choices aren't really ours.

[Kidlicious]

I think it's a mystery. Maybe even God doesn't know things that he doesn't want to know. But I believe in pre-destination. People are chosen by God. But no, you can't just sit back and do whatever tickles your fancy just because you think you are chosen by God.