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I know from experience that Kuciwalker's black and white view of right/wrong and good/evil has resulted in some extremely stupid conclusions. One wonderful example that comes to mind is "Michael Jackson was a really great guy even though he was a kiddy ****er because his music made lots of people happy." This refusal to accept morality as more complex than a cardboard box might fit under this simplistic view of "evil".
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If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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Michael Jackson was a great artist, there's no question about it. Was he really a kiddy fiddler? I don't know, I haven't seen anything about it that was conclusive.
So if you're talking about someone, you probably should define the parameters. Just because he was a great artist doesn't qualify him as a role model, and that's without knowing conclusively about the other.Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
"Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ BraindeadComment
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He was never convicted, what right does anyone have to call him a kiddy ****er?Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View PostComment
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I do tend to enjoy these Modernist contentions that everything is not only knowable but catagoriziable, simply because it is very different from my own views (which is basically that there is far more mystery in life that most people are willing to acknowledge and/or tolerate so while there may be some objective realities, subjective experience is incredibly important in "piercing the veil" - though that doesn't mean we can figure out everything).“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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Totally missing the forest for the trees here. Stop focusing on irrelevancies, although I'm starting to wonder if your only debate skill is finding minor things to complain about.Originally posted by gribbler View PostIf there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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"People call me a murderer but I aint never been caught yet."Originally posted by Aeson View PostIf there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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Making **** up is better than being boring and irrelevant, but only barely. Don't put words in my mouth I never said.Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
That said, being boring and irrelevant is better than being outright stupid. Simple axioms produce complex outcomes, something you've never been bright enough to understand.This refusal to accept morality as more complex than a cardboard box might fit under this simplistic view of "evil".
Come to think of it, that explains why you always need my help with your math homework...Comment
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I didn't miss the forest, *******, I wasn't interested in it.Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View PostComment
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Eyesight comes from socialised rules governing reproduction?Originally posted by Kuciwalker View PostComment
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Obvious objection: I ignore the laws of physics and jump off a cliff, I die. I ignore what economists tell me and respond to debt by printing money forever, the economy crashes under hyperinflation. I ignore morality and steal, I...well, depending on the quality of law enforcement, I may or may not suffer for it. I might come off rather well, in fact.Originally posted by Kuciwalker View PostPhysics doesn't tell me that my eyes are seeing something that looks like a wall; ultimately, the idea is that the axioms we're discovering are pretty far removed from our immediate sensations.
And finally, I'll admit that economics might be a better analogy than physics
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i actually believe that most people act in a moral way most of the time. also i said, that when i act morally others benefit, and when others act morally, i benefit. in the situations you describe, the immoral person may benefit (although in examples you gave, this may not be the case) but another person will suffer as a result of the immoral person's immorality. part of the reason that we behave in a moral way, apart from the fact that we consider it 'right', is because we realise that if others behave in a moral way towards us, we stand to benefit.Originally posted by Elok View Post
i also believe the fact that society can take, as you put it, a good amount of immorality without collapsing, is actually a sign of its strength."The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.
"The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de BottonComment
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Well, obviously there's no formal study on the matter, but I'd say most people occupy a sort of middle ground, at best. Not angels, not devils (of course, saying the average person behaves in an average way is kind of
, but hopefully you know what I mean). And the reason they act that way is that they've found it to be the optimal behavior pattern. Selflessness is unprofitable, complete egotism is ultimately self-destructive, so they stick to the middle. Which generally consists of neglecting moral obligations rather than actively immoral behavior.
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For most people, if they ignore morality and steal 1) they feel bad about it (directly perceive it as wrong) and 2) other people feel that it was wrong.Originally posted by Elok View PostComment
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Eyesight is strongly selected for by those rules, yes.Originally posted by Cort Haus View PostComment
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