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Quebec bans religious teaching in publicly subsidized daycares

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  • Quebec bans religious teaching in publicly subsidized daycares

    One thing Quebec has gotten right in its history.



    Quebec bans religious teaching in publicly subsidized daycares

    Across Montreal daycares this season, three-year-old children have listened to stories about the Nativity, sung Hanukkah songs and played games for the Muslim festival of Eid al-Adha. If the activities were used for teaching religion, this year could be their last.

    Quebec, which has grappled with efforts to limit the place of religion in its public institutions, has decided to bring secularization to the tot-and-toddler set. Starting in June, publicly funded daycares that teach a particular faith to their young charges risk losing their government funding.

    “All questions touching the transmission of faith – that is, teaching religion itself – do not belong within the publicly funded daycare system,” Quebec Family Minister Yolande James said in an interview on Tuesday.

    No sooner was the policy announced than it set off an debate over how the government will find the line between cultural values and religious teaching, and whether it should be left to inspectors to implement rules that deal with sensitive issues of faith. The government says it is tripling its number of daycare inspectors to 58.

    “It will be left to civil servants to decide what is religious and what isn’t,” said Daniel Amar, executive director of the Quebec Jewish Congress. “How will they make the distinction between religion, tradition and custom? If a child draws a menorah, will the daycare lose its subsidy?”

    Some daycares have started scrambling to figure out whether they may violate the government’s new guidelines. At the Friends of Don Bosco daycare centre in Montreal’s Rivière-des-Prairies district, this year’s Christmas concert omitted the reenactment of the Nativity scene. Instead, the children sang Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star and Bing Crosby’s Mele Kalikimaka Hawaiian Christmas.

    “We didn’t sing Silent Night, because we wanted to comply with the directives as quickly as possible,” said Pietro Mercuri, head of the parent committee for the daycare, which is partly located in a Catholic church and run by nuns. “We toned it down this year. Part of being a good Christian is following directives and following the law.

    “It’s too bad, because our parents chose to send their children here because they know it’s related to our church,” Mr. Mercuri said. “But we don’t want to lose our subsidy. In this day and age, everyone is watching their pennies.”

    The new guidelines say religious symbols such as crucifixes and menorahs are still permitted at daycares, as long as they’re not used for religious instruction. A religious leader like an imam or rabbi would be able to visit a daycare, but may not raise religious matters.

    Ms. James says Christmas trees can stay, and daycares can still pursue cultural traditions that grow out of a specific faith. But “crafts, role-playing, songs” used for religious teaching are banned, and so are religious rituals done repeatedly. In practice, that would prevent Montreal’s 30 Jewish daycares from performing Sabbath ceremonies with the children, which they do each Friday.

    “We are very ill at ease with a measure that consists of granting subsidies only to daycares that favour secularism. Secularism has become the new religion,” Mr. Amar said.

    Salam Elmenyawi of the Muslim Council of Montreal is prepared to challenge the new policy in court on the grounds it tramples on religious rights.

    “What is the problem the Quebec government wants to fix?” Mr. Elmenyawi asked. “Are we going to have to stop teaching some of the moral values, like loving your parents, which are emphasized from a religious point of view?”

    Quebec says it has the right to have a say about programs in daycares subsidized by the state. Today, parents in Quebec pay only $7 a day to send a child to the public daycare system, with the government covering the rest, about $40 a day.

    The Family Ministry says it found an estimated 100 subsidized daycares in the province offering some form of religious focus, representing the Catholic, Muslim, Jewish and Greek Orthodox faiths. The daycares had been receiving funding while clearly stating their religious character since Quebec’s universal daycare system was set up in 1997.

    However, after media reports earlier this year about the presence of Muslim and Jewish programs in public daycares, the Liberal government intervened.

    Ms. James says the inspectors will treat the daycares with respect, but failure to comply with the guidelines could lead to the suspension of funding. Parents who opt for faith-based daycare can always choose to go private, she added. “Every person, every group has the right to their religious beliefs, and to exercise them,” Ms. James said. “The line that is clearly being defined here is with respect to the subsidy.”
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    “It will be left to civil servants to decide what is religious and what isn’t,” said Daniel Amar, executive director of the Quebec Jewish Congress. “How will they make the distinction between religion, tradition and custom? If a child draws a menorah, will the daycare lose its subsidy?”


    Maybe if the daycares that Daniel Amar were in stopped teaching religion all day, he could ****ing figure out the difference between a daycare engaged in the transmission of religion ("teaching religion itself") and a child simply drawing a menorah. WHY A MENORAH by the way, Daniel? WHY NOT A MANGER?

    Oh, that's right. Because you're a racist.

    Two can play this game, Daniel! TWO!
    Last edited by Asher; December 22, 2010, 02:48.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

    Comment


    • #3
      FURTHER DANIEL:
      “We are very ill at ease with a measure that consists of granting subsidies only to daycares that favour secularism. Secularism has become the new religion,” Mr. Amar said.


      GOVERNMENT IS SECULAR IN CANADA. GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES, IT FOLLOWS, OUGHT TO BE AS WELL.

      If you wish to brainwash children, do it on your own dime and not mine.

      Salam Elmenyawi of the Muslim Council of Montreal is prepared to challenge the new policy in court on the grounds it tramples on religious rights.
      Salam, IF THAT IS YOUR REAL NAME, you are a ****ing idiot. You're more than welcome to do whatever the **** you want with your stupid religion, just don't do it with public money. No one is taking away your rights to make-believe, just your ability to subsidize your indoctrination of children off the backs of hard working* Canadians.

      * Of course this does not apply to Quebec

      “What is the problem the Quebec government wants to fix?” Mr. Elmenyawi asked. “Are we going to have to stop teaching some of the moral values, like loving your parents, which are emphasized from a religious point of view?”
      Oh Curse be to Allah, you are too stupid to live.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment


      • #4
        I just had a brilliant ****ing idea.

        Instead of using ~83% publicly funded daycares to spread your religion, why not construct a building you can teach your children in? Like a church or something.

        Maybe you could have some school of your own that you operate on a given day of the week? Like, for example, Sunday (a day I've chosen completely at random). You could call it Sunday School!



        OR...if your "faith community" finds the indoctrination more effective when it's on a daily basis (once-weekly indoctrinations are not so successful, as we all know), your community can pool the money to subsidize religious daycares.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment


        • #5
          The head of state of Canada is the head of a religion.

          Perhaps you would prefer to excercise your American birthright.
          (\__/)
          (='.'=)
          (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
            The head of state of Canada is the head of a religion.
            That is irrelevant to the question of whether the government is secular though.

            And I'd be very surprised if Asher wasn't a republican (as in someone who wants Canada to be a republic, not the right wing nut-jobs with the capital R from the US).
            Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
            Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
            We've got both kinds

            Comment


            • #7
              I love seeing OP's like this.

              The tide has turned in this country.
              "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
              "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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              • #8
                Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                The head of state of Canada is the head of a religion.

                We're getting to it.

                From today's Post: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2010/12/22/lorne-gunter-its-time-for-canada-to-break-ties-with-the-british/

                Another relic from our past.
                "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                  The head of state of Canada is the head of a religion.

                  Perhaps you would prefer to excercise your American birthright.
                  You seem to be confused. America infuses the government with religion. That's something I don't want.

                  The head of Canada could be a moose and it'd be all the same to us.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MikeH View Post
                    That is irrelevant to the question of whether the government is secular though.

                    And I'd be very surprised if Asher wasn't a republican (as in someone who wants Canada to be a republic, not the right wing nut-jobs with the capital R from the US).
                    Indeed, I see no point at all in having some inbred figurehead from another country be the head of state for a sovereign nation.
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I also love the phrase "transmission of religion". Sounds like a venereal disease.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I simply don't want Charle's face on our coins. Unsightly.
                        "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                        "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've a feeling it's when the Queen dies (who is seen as a harmless, benevolent old woman) and is replaced by ****ing Charles, Canada will officially make its move.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'd like to think so but, as with religion, I think it is a longer term goal.

                            edit - from Wiki

                            2010

                            In May 2010, a poll by Angus Reid found that more than two-thirds of Canadians, a 69% majority, would like to see a Canadian serving as Canada's head of state, and a 52% majority of Canadians support reopening the constitutional debate to discuss replacing the monarchy with an elected head of state, while only 32% oppose doing so. Despite 69% of Canadians having a "mostly favourable" opinion of Queen Elizabeth II as a person, only one third, 33%, of Canadians preferred Canada to remain a monarchy - the plurality 36% of Canadians said they would prefer to have an elected head of state, another 21% were indifferent, and 11% were unsure. When asked who they would prefer as a monarch after Queen Elizabeth II, three-in-ten Canadians responded by saying there should be no monarch after her. 31% of Canadians also want members of the Royal Family to stop visiting Canada.[61]

                            Also in May 2010, an online poll by Leger Marketing for QMI Agency found that majority 59% of Canadians said that they had little or no interest in the Queen's visit to Canada, while 39% did. The poll found that only 32% of 18 to 34 year-olds had an attachment to the crown. In the 65-and-over group, 46% reported an attachment. One fifth of Canadians said the Queen should stay home, and that furthermore, "Canada should sever its ties with the British Crown".[3]

                            In June 2010, a national poll by the Association for Canadian Studies found decidedly lukewarm feelings about the concept of monarchy. The survey found that 49% of Canadians had a negative reaction to the word "monarchy", compared to just 41% with a positive reaction. In the Maritimes, where the Queen would begin her Canadian visit, the majority 60% registered a negative opinion of monarchy, compared to only 37% positive. (The poll did not refer to the Canadian monarchy or to the Queen specifically, but to the concept of monarchy.)[3]

                            A poll by Ipsos-Reid, also in June 2010, found that the majority two-in-three Canadians agree the royal family should not have any formal role in Canadian society, and reported growing sentiment that Elizabeth II should be Canada's last monarch. The majority 58% of Canadians want Canada to end ties to monarchy when Queen Elizabeth II's reign ends, and the majority 62% of Canadians believe that Canada's head of state should be the Governor General, not the Queen.[62][63]

                            A fifth poll, conducted by Harris-Decima for The Canadian Press a few days ahead of the Queen's nine-day visit to Canada in June, found that nearly half of Canadians, 48%, consider the monarchy to be "a relic of our colonial past that has no place in Canada today." The poll also found that 44% of Canadians want a national referendum to decide whether Canada should keep the monarchy.[64]

                            An Angus Reid poll just after the Queen's visit found that 36% of Canadians want Canada to remain a monarchy, 30% prefer having an elected head of state, and 21% felt it made no difference to them.[65]
                            Last edited by Wezil; December 22, 2010, 11:57.
                            "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                            "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                            • #15
                              OP

                              Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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