Quebec bans religious teaching in publicly subsidized daycares

[notyoueither]

That is irrelevant to the question of whether the government is secular though.

And I'd be very surprised if Asher wasn't a republican (as in someone who wants Canada to be a republic, not the right wing nut-jobs with the capital R from the US).

I think you are mistaking being low key and not pushy about religion with it being absent from public life.

God keep our land...

I, [name], do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors. So help me God.

It will be good when this goes to court and the regulation gets punted.

[Asher]

No, it will be good when **** like in your post is corrected. Make no mistake, that is the direction society is heading in.

We also do not permit religious instruction in Public schools, so why should Public daycares be any different? This isn't exactly new for Canada.

The monarchy is dead. So is religion.

[Asher]

If I had kids and sent them to the local public daycare, I sure as hell wouldn't want them learning the Koran or reading about Jesus' harem or whatever they teach to children.

Children are young, naive, and impressionable. Using public tax dollars to indoctrinate them into religions is ridiculous. Religions have their own programs for indoctrination in churches, community programs, sunday schools, etc. They don't need my tax dollars to do it.

Day cares are there to take care of children while the parents at work and teach them how to play well with others, not to force-feed a captive, impressionable audience propaganda. No wonder the religious people are so up in arms about this, think of the future lost revenues of these kids to the Church collection plates.

[notyoueither]

I do agree that extremists and zealots should not be able to push their views on society as a whole.

[Asher]

Leave it to the parents or the church.

[notyoueither]

I don't see a problem with public dollars following the child into the school or daycare that the parents choose. If it is the parents' choice to have a religious element to their childrens' education that is up to them.

This works quite well with charter schools.

[Asher]

I don't see a problem with public dollars following the child into the school or daycare that the parents choose.

Uhhhh... obviously you don't have any young kids nor know many people with them.

Parents don't really have much choice in which daycare their kid goes to. It's hard enough to find one accepting new kids as it is, let alone one that is remotely convenient.

I have a real problem with my money going towards religious teachings, as the government is divorced from such activity. This is why the Public schools do not teach religion.

If parents want their children to be brainwashed while babysat, they're welcome to go to a private daycare like most of the Western world does.

They have a large daycare in the building I work at, and virtually none of the parents who work here can get their kids into it. Long, long "waiting list" -- a list that is so long, the kids seldom need daycare by the time their name comes up.

If you have a publicly funded daycare right next to your work or on your way to work, you should not have to ensure it is a "secular" daycare to ensure your children are not brainwashed. Secularism is the standard with government services, like it or not.

If you wish to live in a theocracy, there's plenty of countries in the middle east to choose from. And southern US states. None of that here, please.

[notyoueither]

Funny, religion and religious subjects are taught in schools funded by the public in Alberta.

The same is true in most parts of Canada, only it may be restricted to just the RC faith in many parts.

[notyoueither]

If you wish to live in a theocracy, there's plenty of countries in the middle east to choose from. And southern US states. None of that here, please.

I don't like having zealots cram their POV down my throat. That goes for rabid athiests as well as mullahs.

[Asher]

Funny, religion and religious subjects are taught in schools funded by the public in Alberta.

The same is true in most parts of Canada, only it may be restricted to just the RC faith in many parts.

Do you understand how the funding of those schools work? In Alberta, Catholics pay for the Catholic school district (and their children must attend that district).

There's a reason they're not the Public School district, like these are Public Daycares. They're called the Catholic School District for a reason.

There's also a reason why it's forbidden to teach religion in a Public School.

[Asher]

I don't like having zealots cram their POV down my throat. That goes for rabid athiests as well as mullahs.

The fallacy here is the absence of religion is not zealotry. People are more than welcome to religion, but that is supplemental to the basic needs of public education (Public schoolboards) or public daycare (Public daycares...).

Zealotry is insisting religion should be taught in public day cares.

[Asher]

FWIW, there's significant controversy over even the presence of Catholic and Protestant school districts. They're falling out of favour with the general public, and have even drawn international condemnations from the UN...

[Asher]

Turns out in 95-96 Alberta changed the education funding system which changed this.

The School Amendment Act, 1994 and the Government Organization Act, together with the Framework for Funding School Boards in the 1995‑96 School Year, introduced a new school funding scheme. The Alberta Government chose to pool all revenues in a central fund and to distribute funding to school boards in a provincially stipulated per‑student amount multiplied by the number of students enrolled within each board’s jurisdiction. With one exception, public school boards may no longer retain money raised through direct taxation. As a result of their constitutional status, separate school boards could and did opt out of the fund and continue to requisition taxes directly from ratepayers. Separate school boards, however, may not retain an amount less than or greater than the allotment they would have received from the fund. In the event of a deficiency, an opted-out board receives a payment from the fund and, in the event of a surplus, opted-out boards must remit to the fund any amount in excess of the allotment they would have received had they participated in the fund. All boards also receive provincial grants determined by the Framework based upon three blocks: instruction, support and capital. Each school receives the same allotment per student for basic instruction. Additional funding is provided to equalize the effect of school‑specific factors. Several school board associations and others challenged the constitutionality of the scheme arguing that school boards had a constitutional right to reasonable autonomy, that the new scheme discriminated against public school boards, and that it violated a constitutional principle of mirror equality that guarantees equivalent rights to public and separate school boards. The trial judge rejected the reasonable autonomy and discrimination arguments but accepted the mirror equality argument, finding the scheme invalid to the extent that it does not allow public school boards to opt out of the funding scheme. The Court of Appeal upheld the trial judge’s decision on the reasonable autonomy and discrimination issues but held that s. 17(1) did not import a principle of mirror equality and found the new scheme constitutional.


Held: The appeal should be dismissed. The new school funding scheme is constitutional.

http://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/2000/2000scc45/2000scc45.html

[notyoueither]

Do you understand how the funding of those schools work? In Alberta, Catholics pay for the Catholic school district (and their children must attend that district).

There's a reason they're not the Public School district, like these are Public Daycares. They're called the Catholic School District for a reason.

There's also a reason why it's forbidden to teach religion in a Public School.

Charter schools.
http://education.alberta.ca/parents/educationsys/ourstudents/iv.aspx

Charter Schools

Charter schools were established to encourage innovative approaches to improve student learning. They offer unique or enhanced education programs, teaching methods or learning environments not available locally in the regular system. These schools are established only when there is significant community support and parents are active partners in the school.

Charter schools follow the Alberta Programs of Study, and students are required to write provincial achievement tests and Grade 12 diploma exams. They cannot be affiliated with a religious faith or denomination. They may offer religious instruction, as may any other public or separate school under the School Act. Charter schools are run on a non-profit basis. Any student may enroll as long as space and resources are available.

A charter school is designed to meet the needs of a specific group of students, not every student in Alberta. Sections 44 (Resident student) and 47 (Special education program) of the School Act do not apply to charter schools, since that responsibility is already delegated to local school boards.

They cannot be affiliated with a religious faith or denomination. They may offer religious instruction, as may any other public or separate school under the School Act.

In Alberta, Catholics pay for the Catholic school district (and their children must attend that district).

que?

Non Catholics can attend the seperate schools, or they could last I knew.

Catholics can attend the seperate schools, private schools, charter schools, or public schools.

I believe that the standard for public funding is that none can be excluded. I think that is a good standard.

And they are called the Seperate School System, not Catholic. They happen to be associated with the RCs due to legal and historical reasons.

[Asher]

Charter schools.
http://education.alberta.ca/parents/educationsys/ourstudents/iv.aspx
Charter Schools

Oh, I see. I thought you were making a relevant argument.

Charter schools are an obvious rare exception. There are also charter schools for homosexuals and black people ("Afro-centric"), so there's that... Charter schools are not directly comparable to your standard public daycare, which is directly comparable to the public school system. Separate systems are created for those who favour indoctrination of children.

They are the exception, not the rule.

Name one public school in Alberta that offers religious instruction...

Non Catholics can attend the seperate schools, or they could last I knew.

Yes, they can choose to support the Catholic boards.

Catholics can attend the seperate schools, private schools, charter schools, or public schools.

They most certainly cannot attend public schools in Alberta, by the letter of the law.
They CAN in Ontario. Not Alberta.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_schools#Alberta_and_Saskatchewan

In Alberta, wherever a separate school system exists, individuals who are of the minority faith that established the separate school system must be residents, electors, and ratepayers of the separate school system (the Schmidt decision). There is no way by which they could opt to be supporters of the public school system except by leaving the minority faith. In Saskatchewan and Ontario, members of the minority faith may choose to be supporters of the public school system, notwithstanding their faith.

Edit: Apparently Catholic children can attend the public school. Their parents are just legally forced to fund and support (and elect board members of) the Catholic school district.