Worm Was Perfect for Sabotaging Centrifuges

[Kuciwalker]

Kuci - I think that is the realpolitik answer given by gribbler earlier. It's hard to argue against in practical terms. I just ask for some intellectual honesty when we talk out of both sides of our mouth. It is hypocritical.

What's hypocritical? Who here is arguing that it is right and proper that we have a restricted nuclear suffrage*, that it's morally outrageous for the Iranians to try this but there's absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that we could kill everyone on the planet ten times over?

And there's absolutely nothing dishonest or hypocritical about the US adopting the position that the NPT represents the best of all possible worlds - because it does.

*to be fair, I have speculated about such an argument here, but I think "look, this probably prevents World War III from happening" is a decent reason.

[SlowwHand]

ASHER! Help me. Are One Of You ********ers in China? thread. I need you, buddy.

[Wezil]

The issue wasn't whether or not Iran having nukes was bad. I think most of us agree it is.

The issue is how far would you go and what would you do to stop it (preemptively)?

[SlowwHand]

Clearly, the only thing to do is bomb them into oblivion. Give the everyday people a warning. Drop leaflets. "Hey. You have 72 hours to make it to another country.
This one is about to be toast."

[Wezil]

I wonder how Iraq and Afghanistan would cope with a sudden influx of millions of Iranians?

[SlowwHand]

Well, hell. Afghanistan doesn't know how many people are there already.

[BeBMan]

Ralph Langner, a German expert in industrial control systems who has examined the program and who was the first to suggest that the Stuxnet worm may have been aimed at Iran, noted in late September that a file inside the code was named “Myrtus.” That could be read as an allusion to Esther, and he and others speculated it was a reference to the Book of Esther, the Old Testament tale in which the Jews pre-empt a Persian plot to destroy them.

Writing on his Web site last week, Mr. Langner noted that a number of the data modules inside the program contained the date “Sept. 24, 2001,” clearly long before the program was written. He wrote that he believed the date was a message from the authors of the program, but did not know what it might mean.

Last month, researchers at Symantec also speculated that a string of numbers found in the program — 19790509 — while seeming random, might actually be significant. They speculated that it might refer to May 9, 1979, the day that Jewish-Iranian businessman Habib Elghanian was executed in Iran after being convicted of spying for Israel.

I see they've read their Dan Brown....

[giblets]

The issue wasn't whether or not Iran having nukes was bad. I think most of us agree it is.

The issue is how far would you go and what would you do to stop it (preemptively)?

Do you think a computer virus is going too far?

[BeBMan]

Any sort of preemptive action is politically dangerous.

Israeli has worn the "Trust us, we had to" card a little thin.

Given the state of hostility between Iran and Israel I'm not sure this can count as "preemptive action" (ignoring that this goes mostly for classic military action anyways). Also preemption is not per se ruled out in intl law (for example in case you get knowledge of an imminent attack -- noone has to wait then until he gets shot or bombed). As for "politically dangerous", well, doing nothing can be as well. What I'm personally more concerned with is whether certain actions by the West/Israel or so will in the end rather stabilize the regime in Tehran, though I guess for those that would maybe have to face an Iran armed with nukes it seems like the lesser evil...

[giblets]

Does it not strike anyone in Israel to be a stupid idea to continue to **** around with other countries when they value their own security at all?

If they keep doing this ****, no one should help them defend themselves. Let them dig their own grave.

Does the Iranian government want to leave Israel alone? I'm not saying they would use a nuke, but provoking Israel seems like a good way to distract the Iranian public from domestic problems.

[Hauldren Collider]

Asher is so full of **** it's pathetic. Just come clean and admit you're knee-jerk anti-israel.

[Hauldren Collider]

Does the Iranian government want to leave Israel alone? I'm not saying they would use a nuke, but provoking Israel seems like a good way to distract the Iranian public from domestic problems.

This. Also, the more I read about the Iranian clerics the more I feel concerned that they might actually be crazy enough to sell nukes to terrorists. The fact is that Israel can't afford to allow one of its sworn enemies to acquire nuclear weapons--enemies that don't seem to be deterred by the possibility of mutually assured destruction. If Iran were to act in its own interest at all, it would have abandoned nuclear programs altogether because of the crippling economic sanctions that have come with their attempts at building the bomb.

[Asher]

Asher is so full of **** it's pathetic. Just come clean and admit you're knee-jerk anti-israel.

Israel

Yeah, I'm the knee-jerk guy, you're the one who replied "Israel" followed by three and a half dozen thumbs up.

I'm not anti-Israel, I'm anti-meddling with other people's ****. That includes your country invading Iraq, it includes Israel assassinating other people using fake passports from other countries in other countries, just as it includes them ****ing with Iran in this case.

People need to learn to mind their own ****ing business. This goes for socially conservative Americans as well as it goes for triggerhappy Israelites.

[Asher]

It also includes boarding a boat in international waters with commandos.

Again, I actually resent the typical knee-jerk "anti-Israel" comment (I'm shocked you didn't say anti-semite like people usually do ) ) every time someone criticizes something Israel does. The fact that they do so very many things criticism-worthy just means they're ****ing *******s, not that people who criticize the **** they do are anti-Israel.

I also frequently criticize the US, am I anti-America?
I also frequently criticize Canada, am I anti-Canada?
I also frequently criticize the UK and other Commonwealth countries, am I anti-Commonwealth?

[DinoDoc]

How is a country dealing with threats in a clever way and without killing anyone something to be critical of?