Worm Was Perfect for Sabotaging Centrifuges

[giblets]

I guess we should be outraged that Israel attempted a peaceful solution instead of bombing Iran.

[Elok]

Any time Israel defends its interests without accidentally killing a ten-year-old in the process, we all win.

Er, except Iran, that is. They lost, they definitely lost. Could've lost more, though.

[Hauldren Collider]

Iran losing is a victory for people who like seeing New York Harbor radiation free.

[Hauldren Collider]

I guess we should be outraged that Israel attempted a peaceful solution instead of bombing Iran.

Unfortunately, I think it's only a matter of time before Israel has to resort to bombs though. I get the feeling you can only stall them for so long, at some point you have to pull an Osirak.

[Elok]

Iran losing is a victory for people who like seeing New York Harbor radiation free.

I really don't see them being stupid enough to start a nuclear war with us. Or Israel, or even some nukeless rival. Not that I'd stake my life on it or anything, but in all likelihood they'll use them the same way other nuclear powers do: as a symbol of penis size and deterrent of invasion. North Korea seems much more worrisome.

[Hauldren Collider]

I really don't see them being stupid enough to start a nuclear war with us. Or Israel, or even some nukeless rival. Not that I'd stake my life on it or anything, but in all likelihood they'll use them the same way other nuclear powers do: as a symbol of penis size and deterrent of invasion. North Korea seems much more worrisome.

I hope you're right. Iran might not be as crazy as North Korea, but I wouldn't put it past them to be crazy enough to use the damn things.

[Elok]

It's not that I think proliferation of nuclear weapons is a good thing, but you have to bear in mind that most of the crazy coming out of Iran comes from Ahmawhatsit, and the reason it comes out of him is that he's essentially Zaphod Beeblebrox. He's not totally powerless, but the clerics have the unconditional ability to override every damned thing he does. So while he blathers insane bull**** about fake Holocausts, evil Israel, and his marvelously homosexual-free country, the clerics can do their thing and not worry about the press so much. Which is not such a stupid or crazy thing to do at all, IMO.

Now, Pakistan already has nukes, and they're not doing so hot now. That's worrisome.

[Hauldren Collider]

I understand that Elok, and I have actually made that same analogy to Beeblebrox before about Ahmadinejad but I am seriously worried that the clerics themselves might actually be crazy enough, though I take your point. The thing is, Israel cannot afford to take any chances with a nuclear Iran.

And I totally agree with respect to Pakistan. If Pakistan fell to an insurgency we could be in some deep trouble.

[Elok]

No, Israel can't afford to. Makes me very glad that I'm not Israeli. If they're actually that insane and want to hit us, they're going to have to work to reach us a hemisphere away and hit us hard enough to avoid retaliation. That's some comfort from a U.S. perspective. Not from an Israeli perspective, so of course I wouldn't expect them to react so calmly.

Actually, I don't see how you can NOT make the Beeblebrox parallel. It's entirely possible that some Iranian cleric had a pile of atheist-written books to burn, took a peek and had a lightbulb.

[MOBIUS]

All a big MEH really...

If anything, it's Israel's admission of defeat that all they can do is stall the inevitable and that a military solution is now beyond their ability.

About the only people the once mighty Israeli military can bully these days are Palestinian civilians - and peaceful boats full of humanitarian supplies...

[Wezil]

I'm really not seeing the hypocrisy here. If China used a beautifully targeted virus to screw with something very delicate in the U.S., I wouldn't be cheering for it but I'd still admit it was clever. So, I suspect, would most others. I'll even go so far as to say that it was very dastardly and underhanded of the Israelis to apparently use a computer virus to sabotage a rival/enemy's nuclear program. But hell, it worked like a charm and AFAIK not a single person died, so good for them.

Fair enough, if you accept the neutrality of the positions and accept people are just admiring the skill. I suspect there is far more cheering going on than you. Reasonable people can disagree.

I think it is extremely hypocritical to have a "Do as we say, not as we do foreign policy". It cripples the credibility. If it is wrong for other nations to do, surely it should be wrong for the US and it's friends?

[giblets]

I would gladly be a hypocrite if it stopped Iran from getting nuclear weapons. I don't want the Iranian government to have a stronger position in international relations because their opinions are very different from mine. I think it would be in the interests of both myself and humanity if the ability of autocratic theocracies to project power outside of their borders were limited.

[Kuciwalker]

Wezil, would it be hypocrisy to tell the Nazis they couldn't have tanks..?

[Wezil]

Kuci, would it be acceptable to use any and all means (including those you condemn) to prevent them from having tanks? Remember, you would be making this decision without the benefit of hindsight...

edit - I'm not sure of the point to your question Kuci... Is it that tanks are dangerous in malicious hands or that acquiring them was in violation of treaties? Both could apply to pre-WW2 germany and current day Iran.

[Kuciwalker]

If I could destroy all the Nazi tanks with a computer virus I would leap at the chance. If it had to be done by precision airstrikes that only killed a few people, I would be more hesitant. And if it could only be accomplished by a full-scale invasion, I would be pretty skeptical.

Duh?