San Diego and the demise of American freedom

[Felch]

Sorry, I forgot foreigners don't have rights. Nothing wrong with a country that claims to fight for freedom while locking people up indefinitely without a trial.

Foreigners don't have rights.

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

The United States doesn't exist to protect the freedom of its enemies. It exists to protect the freedoms of its citizens.

[Asher]

Name someone residing in the US who was sent to gitmo. AFAIK, they were captured in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Further, it is on a totally different scale.

Do we have a full list somewhere of people residing in Gitmo and their citizenship?

I know you guys are housing at least one Canadian citizen, born and raised in Canada...

[Asher]

Foreigners don't have rights.

Yes, they do. Just not the same rights.

[Hauldren Collider]

Do we have a full list somewhere of people residing in Gitmo and their citizenship?

I know you guys are housing at least one Canadian citizen, born and raised in Canada...

Why won't Canada let us repatriate him then?

[Asher]

HC, why will you just not admit that this is a retarded law/policy, and not the actions of some dumb low-level government employee?

Any freedom-loving American should be able to recognize that. Part of loving your country is knowing when to criticize mistakes it makes. And no, I'm not talking about your partisan hackery of attacking Obama and his policies whenever possible because he's "the other party", I'm talking about looking at the situation, recognizing "that's ****ed up", admitting to it, then demanding change.

[Asher]

Why won't Canada let us repatriate him then?

We are.

He's finally going to serve his time in a Canadian jail, not gitmo, as soon as you guys let us (in a year or so). But it took a lot of politicking to do that.

Edit: The other issue was Canada's conservative government likes to kiss America's ass a little too much, so did not formally request extradition. It took the Canadian supreme court to rule that under Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the government must demand his return to Canadian soil. In addition, a majority of Canadians (~65%) support such action. After that, the US agreed to send him to Canada after he served 1 more year in gitmo.

So we have a case here where, when the government erred, the Canadian people and the justice system of Canada forced the hand to correct the action. The same action I hope you guys do, but by all indications you don't seem to care because after all, it's not like it's an interment camp!

[Asher]

And you sidestepped my question.

Where is a list of all of the people ever held in Gitmo and their respective citizenships?

You're making a claim about it, so I assume you've seen such a list.

[DinoDoc]

[Heraclitus]

Which doesn't change the fact that Islam was the cause of it in the first place and if Islam didn't exist then we wouldn't be talking right now.

Much of the problems could be solved if people where allowed to be reasonable in who they suspect to be terrorists. Unfortunately racial profiling is a nono despite the fact that its cost effective.

HC's high school is paler than Canada

Duh it is, if it wasn't it wouldn't be that selective. High IQ non-White Hispanics and even more so African Americans are a rare commodity that every organization tries to grab up. There simply aren't enough to go around.


Of course "too pale" includes East Asians and some Indian Americans, apparently only dysfunctional groups count as adding diversity.

At 46 percent, Asians also are the most common ethnicity at Jefferson.

I could have never guessed that. I'll now use my super rassssist powers of prediction and state that at least 20% of the schools students are Jewish. Am I right HC?

Does having a good simple model of reality count for anything these days?

Just read this a few weeks ago:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/09/ed...?_r=1&emc=eta1

Back to Felche's link

Their children get terrific educations, but they learn eventually that attending Jefferson does not guarantee admission to Princeton or Yale. Those colleges dole out admissions like Halloween candy: not too many to any one high school.

So broadening the ethnic profile of our nation's best high schools should not be that hard.

There will be another drive to fix "the gap" and it will be "shown to work" in a school or two the guy who made it work there will be praised and it will be tried on a larger scale and shown to fail. White disingenuous Liberals will be concerned as will Black Doctors and Judges (who actually have my sympathy) who will see their kids be outperformed by the kids of the lowest economic stratum of Whites and Asians. This will feed another drive for the next wonder proposal.
Repeat ad nauseum.

The only thing that has so far "closed the gap" is giving more very hard and very easy questions on tests. The gap mysteriously shrinks then. I wonder why

Steve Sailer is right: PC does makes you stupid.


Seriously being consistently right in predictions is supremley awesome, despite the gloomy short term outlook of HBD, this thread has gotten me in the best mood that I've been in months and reminded me why taking evolution seriously helps make sense of the living world. For all that IQ is worth it sure doesn't make one more rational when signalling is involved.

Edit:

Sadly, we haven't figured out a sure way to teach character. The largest federal study of character-building or social-development programs recently reported llittle progress in improving student behavior or achievement. But we can tell which Jefferson applicants show signs of the determination and grace that produce great lives. Just ask their middle school teachers.

O RLY?

Many of the most promising ones will be black and Hispanic. Give more of them a chance, and Jefferson will not only be a more interesting school to attend but also more reflective of the values we want all of our kids to have.

Please stop stop I can't take this anymore.

Ok to be serious, I wouldn't mind spending about twice as much on Black and Hispanic kids if a way was found to raise their IQ to Asian levels (at that point I'd want that for white kids too). This is why I think we need to spend more money on intelligence research, especially real research that doesn't a priori ignore certain sources of the well known high heritability.

[giblets]

“There’s accumulating evidence that there are racial differences in what kids experience before the first day of kindergarten,” said Ronald Ferguson, director of the Achievement Gap Initiative at Harvard. “They have to do with a lot of sociological and historical forces. In order to address those, we have to be able to have conversations that people are unwilling to have.”

.

[Hauldren Collider]

about 20% or so is Jewish, yeah, maybe a bit more I think? I don't have the exact numbers.

[Hauldren Collider]

.

This, I think, is correct. We need to start helping people BEFORE they apply for college--fix the disadvantages they have when they're in their primary education. And I think it isn't so much that blacks and hispanics have trouble, it's that poor people have trouble. We should be giving extra help to poor people.

[Heraclitus]

One can still be all for a 100% environmental explanation behind the IQ gap, but it wouldn't change the fact that the IQ gap is currently a fact on the ground. What possible reason except thinking that cultural biases are behind the IQ gap could there be for this constant shock at low IQ groups under-performing?

From what we know there is little hope for people who are practically adults (college years).

This, I think, is correct. We need to start helping people BEFORE they apply for college--fix the disadvantages they have when they're in their primary education. And I think it isn't so much that blacks and hispanics have trouble, it's that poor people have trouble. We should be giving extra help to poor people.

You didn't read that right. First day of kindergarten.

Can Black people's culture and residual racism really be toxic enough to knock the kids of rich Black parents all the way down below Bubba from Apalacia's kids on average? What exactly would be the solution to that? A stolen generation? Doing away with White people? Both?

Also why dosen't residual White racism hurt Asians as much as it hurts say Hispanics? Sure one might make that argument for Blacks, but Hispanics? Neither Hispanics nor Asians where a major group in the US until recently.

And if its their culture, then what? Affirmative action does no good, one can't foster certain values in a culture by just giving the culture the rewards those values bring.

And if its perhaps something biological like lead paint or a higher pathogen load or prenatal environment but not genetic, how can one mostly fix this with trying really really hard to educate them? The best course would be to find and eliminate the environmental reason.

Why aren't millions spent on that? We already know that there are differences in IQ when comparing people of the same racial group from the South and the North of the US because of the pathogen load, why couldn't similar non-genetic but biological explanations be behind the White-Black or Asian-White gap?

[Al B. Sure!]

HC's high school is paler than Canada

I mentioned the statistics on his high school a few months back.

[Hauldren Collider]

The only relevant statistics on my high school are the college graduation rates and median incomes of alumni.