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San Diego and the demise of American freedom

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  • San Diego and the demise of American freedom

    Submitted without further comment:

    [These events took place roughly between 5:30 and 6:30 AM, November 13th in Terminal 2 of the San Diego International Airport. I'm writing t...


    TSA encounter at SAN
    [These events took place roughly between 5:30 and 6:30 AM, November 13th in Terminal 2 of the San Diego International Airport. I'm writing this approximately 2 1/2 hours after the events transpired, and they are correct to the best of my recollection. I will admit to being particularly fuzzy on the exact order of events when dealing with the agents after getting my ticket refunded; however, all of the events described did occur.

    I had my phone recording audio and video of much of these events. It can be viewed below.

    Please spread this story as far and wide as possible. I will make no claims to copyright or otherwise.]

    This morning, I tried to fly out of San Diego International Airport but was refused by the TSA. I had been somewhat prepared for this eventuality. I have been reading about the millimeter wave and backscatter x-ray machines and the possible harm to health as well as the vivid pictures they create of people's naked bodies. Not wanting to go through them, I had done my research on the TSA's website prior to traveling to see if SAN had them. From all indications, they did not. When I arrived at the security line, I found that the TSA's website was out of date. SAN does in fact utilize backscatter x-ray machines.

    I made my way through the line toward the first line of "defense": the TSA ID checker. This agent looked over my boarding pass, looked over my ID, looked at me and then back at my ID. After that, he waved me through. SAN is still operating metal detectors, so I walked over to one of the lines for them. After removing my shoes and making my way toward the metal detector, the person in front of me in line was pulled out to go through the backscatter machine. After asking what it was and being told, he opted out. This left the machine free, and before I could go through the metal detector, I was pulled out of line to go through the backscatter machine. When asked, I half-chuckled and said, "I don't think so." At this point, I was informed that I would be subject to a pat down, and I waited for another agent.

    A male agent (it was a female who had directed me to the backscatter machine in the first place), came and waited for me to get my bags and then directed me over to the far corner of the area for screening. After setting my things on a table, he turned to me and began to explain that he was going to do a "standard" pat down. (I thought to myself, "great, not one of those gropings like I've been reading about".) After he described, the pat down, I realized that he intended to touch my groin. After he finished his description but before he started the pat down, I looked him straight in the eye and said, "if you touch my junk, I'll have you arrested." He, a bit taken aback, informed me that he would have to involve his supervisor because of my comment.

    We both stood there for no more than probably two minutes before a female TSA agent (apparently, the supervisor) arrived. She described to me that because I had opted out of the backscatter screening, I would now be patted down, and that involved running hands up the inside of my legs until they felt my groin. I stated that I would not allow myself to be subject to a molestation as a condition of getting on my flight. The supervisor informed me that it was a standard administrative security check and that they were authorized to do it. I repeated that I felt what they were doing was a sexual assault, and that if they were anyone but the government, the act would be illegal. I believe that I was then informed that if I did not submit to the inspection, I would not be getting on my flight. I again stated that I thought the search was illegal. I told her that I would be willing to submit to a walk through the metal detector as over 80% of the rest of the people were doing, but I would not be groped. The supervisor, then offered to go get her supervisor.

    I took a seat in a tiny metal chair next to the table with my belongings and waited. While waiting, I asked the original agent (who was supposed to do the pat down) if he had many people opt out to which he replied, none (or almost none, I don't remember exactly). He said that I gave up a lot of rights when I bought my ticket. I replied that the government took them away after September 11th. There was silence until the next supervisor arrived. A few minutes later, the female agent/supervisor arrived with a man in a suit (not a uniform). He gave me a business card identifying him as David Silva, Transportation Security Manager, San Diego International Airport. At this point, more TSA agents as well as what I assume was a local police officer arrived on the scene and surrounded the area where I was being detained. The female supervisor explained the situation to Mr. Silva. After some quick back and forth (that I didn't understand/hear), I could overhear Mr. Silva say something to the effect of, "then escort him from the airport." I again offered to submit to the metal detector, and my father-in-law, who was near by also tried to plead for some reasonableness on the TSA's part.

    The female supervisor took my ID at this point and began taking some kind of report with which I cooperated. Once she had finished, I asked if I could put my shoes back on. I was allowed to put my shoes back on and gather my belongs. I asked, "are we done here" (it was clear at this point that I was going to be escorted out), and the local police officer said, "follow me". I followed him around the side of the screening area and back out to the ticketing area. I said apologized to him for the hassle, to which he replied that it was not a problem.

    I made my way over to the American Airlines counter, explained the situation, and asked if my ticket could be refunded. The woman behind the counter furiously typed away for about 30 seconds before letting me know that she would need a supervisor. She went to the other end of the counter. When she returned, she informed me that the ticket was non-refundable, but that she was still trying to find a supervisor. After a few more minutes, she was able to refund my ticket. I told her that I had previously had a bad experience with American Airlines and had sworn never to fly with them again (I rationalized this trip since my father-in-law had paid for the ticket), but that after her helpfulness, I would once again be willing to use their carrier again.

    At this point, I thought it was all over. I began to make my way to the stairs to exit the airport, when I was approached by another man in slacks and a sport coat. He was accompanied by the officer that had escorted me to the ticketing area and Mr. Silva. He informed me that I could not leave the airport. He said that once I start the screening in the secure area, I could not leave until it was completed. Having left the area, he stated, I would be subject to a civil suit and a $10,000 fine. I asked him if he was also going to fine the 6 TSA agents and the local police officer who escorted me from the secure area. After all, I did exactly what I was told. He said that they didn't know the rules, and that he would deal with them later. They would not be subject to civil penalties. I then pointed to Mr. Silva and asked if he would be subject to any penalties. He is the agents' supervisor, and he directed them to escort me out. The man informed me that Mr. Silva was new and he would not be subject to penalties, either. He again asserted the necessity that I return to the screening area. When I asked why, he explained that I may have an incendiary device and whether or not that was true needed to be determined. I told him that I would submit to a walk through the metal detector, but that was it; I would not be groped. He told me that their procedures are on their website, and therefore, I was fully informed before I entered the airport; I had implicitly agreed to whatever screening they deemed appropriate. I told him that San Diego was not listed on the TSA's website as an airport using Advanced Imaging Technology, and I believed that I would only be subject to the metal detector. He replied that he was not a webmaster, and I asked then why he was referring me to the TSA's website if he didn't know anything about it. I again refused to re-enter the screening area.

    The man asked me to stay put while he walked off to confer with the officer and Mr. Silva. They went about 20 feet away and began talking amongst themselves while I waited. I couldn't over hear anything, but I got the impression that the police officer was recounting his version of the events that had transpired in the screening area (my initial refusal to be patted down). After a few minutes, I asked loudly across the distance if I was free to leave. The man dismissively held up a finger and said, "hold on". I waited. After another minute or so, he returned and asked for my name. I asked why he needed it, and reminded him that the female supervisor/agent had already taken a report. He said that he was trying to be friendly and help me out. I asked to what end. He reminded me that I could be sued civilly and face a $10,000 fine and that my cooperation could help mitigate the penalties I was facing. I replied that he already had my information in the report that was taken and I asked if I was free to leave. I reminded him that he was now illegally detaining me and that I would not be subject to screening as a condition of leaving the airport. He told me that he was only trying to help (I should note that his demeanor never suggested that he was trying to help. I was clearly being interrogated.), and that no one was forcing me to stay. I asked if tried to leave if he would have the officer arrest me. He again said that no one was forcing me to stay. I looked him in the eye, and said, "then I'm leaving". He replied, "then we'll bring a civil suit against you", to which I said, "you bring that suit" and walked out of the airport.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    Land of The Free

    Comment


    • #3
      I think this is more Kafka-esque bureaucratic retardation than demise of freedom.
      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
      ){ :|:& };:

      Comment


      • #4
        If we wiped out Islam the need for this stuff wouldn't really exist. I don't see why the rest of the world should have to go through all this because of muslims. The entire world should unite together to wipe Islam from existence.

        Comment


        • #5
          How could it not be demise of freedom?

          This guy goes and stands in line at a metal detector to board his flight.

          The government then gives him the following options:
          1) Get zapped with radiation and be completely exposed to someone you don't know
          2) Get fondled by a low-paid government employee
          3) Face a potential $10,000 civil suit

          There's no option of even just walking away. This is absurd, and a direct attack on the man's freedom.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Asher View Post
            How could it not be demise of freedom?

            This guy goes and stands in line at a metal detector to board his flight.

            The government then gives him the following options:
            1) Get zapped with radiation and be completely exposed to someone you don't know
            2) Get fondled by a low-paid government employee
            3) Face a potential $10,000 civil suit

            There's no option of even just walking away. This is absurd, and a direct attack on the man's freedom.
            Obviously the threat is unfounded. Bureaucratic retardation. It would get thrown out if sent through the court system.

            If your idea of freedom is that government workers do the right thing 100% of the time, you're not going to find a free country anywhere.
            If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
            ){ :|:& };:

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DriXnaK View Post
              If we wiped out Islam the need for this stuff wouldn't really exist. I don't see why the rest of the world should have to go through all this because of muslims. The entire world should unite together to wipe Islam from existence.
              Islam is causing me no pain in my life. Christian America's obsessive war against Islam, manifested in issues like this, piss me off on a regular basis.

              I think these terrorist attacks are having their intended effects, and Americans are apparently too stupid to realize it. Your nation is losing more and more of its freedoms on a regular basis, all in the name of supposedly defending against these attacks, which is both demoralizing and antithetical to the supposed founding principles of your nation.

              It's a shame.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                Obviously the threat is unfounded. Bureaucratic retardation.
                Bureaucratic retardation is what led to the loss of freedom. They're not mutually exclusive.

                It would get thrown out if sent through the court system.

                If your idea of freedom is that government workers do the right thing 100% of the time, you're not going to find a free country anywhere.
                You seem to think these are rogue agents. There's obviously a law or official policy on the books pertaining to this, which means it's NOT about government workers doing the right thing, it's about YOUR GOVERNMENT instituting policies that take away Americans' freedoms.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm sorry Asher, freedom in America is still stronger than it has pretty much ever been. Read up on your US history.

                  You really will stop at nothing to make pathetic trolls about the USA. It must be the "clean" Canadian air.
                  If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                  ){ :|:& };:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Which doesn't change the fact that Islam was the cause of it in the first place and if Islam didn't exist then we wouldn't be talking right now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      just shut up Drixnax, you aren't helping.
                      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                      ){ :|:& };:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                        I'm sorry Asher, freedom in America is still stronger than it has pretty much ever been. Read up on your US history.
                        Wow...

                        You're just delusional.

                        Here's some choice legislation that makes your freedom STRONGER THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN:

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act

                        Just to name a couple.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I noticed the demise of freedom the first time I was arrested for smoking weed. That was like, ten years ago. Where have you been, Asher?
                          John Brown did nothing wrong.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Asher View Post
                            Wow...

                            You're just delusional.

                            Here's some choice legislation that makes your freedom STRONGER THAN IT HAS EVER BEEN:

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act

                            Just to name a couple.


                            Internment camps. All the anti free speech **** passed by Wilson. The Red Scares. SEGREGATION. You think freedom in the US was better then than it is now?
                            If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                            ){ :|:& };:

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post


                              Internment camps.
                              Gitmo say what?

                              All the anti free speech **** passed by Wilson. The Red Scares. SEGREGATION. You think freedom in the US was better then than it is now?
                              While it's very true your country has a long history of shameful fearmongering, this is just more of the same. Instead of fearing black people or the commies, the new "bad guys" are people who follow, or LOOK LIKE THEY FOLLOW Islam. And like you have in the past, you take away individual freedoms in the name of this holy war of yours.

                              The fact that history keeps repeating itself is not a good argument to make. Additionally, saying "we no longer segregate the darkies, therefore we're more free than ever so this isn't a big deal" is pretty hilariously atypical of the attitudes of Americans, and precisely why this is so scary to most people who don't have blinders on.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                              Comment

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