Christianity ruins families.

[giblets]

No, the dishonest argument would come after I gave you the definition.

[Ben Kenobi]

So asking for your beliefs is a dishonest argument? Tough crowd.

[giblets]

Nope, you want to make a dishonest BS argument instead of actually addressing what I said.

[Ben Kenobi]

I know what the word means. I want to know what you believe the word means.

[giblets]

If you don't know what a word means look it up yourself. Your ignorance is not my responsibility.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't want to assume. Answer the question.

[giblets]

All I'm asking is what is your definition of monogamy?

I don't know why you're having so much trouble with the concept.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow, I didn't know you had a problem with monogamy.

All I'm asking is what is your definition of monogamy?

[Ben Kenobi]

Oh... are you saying all gays are HIV and that all straight people don't?

I'm really not sure how you got that out of what I said. Would you trust a condom with your life, and have sex with a WOMAN who is HIV+

At least smart people use condoms... it's against the rules of your silly cult.

Yeah, that whole wait until you get married to have sex, and have sex with only your wife. Condoms are pointless in that situation.

Prove it... studies show that catholics have more abortions than any other group of people. So it seems they are very selective about which church teachings they follow.

Catholics are also the largest religious affiliation in the US, so you'd expect them to have the most abortions. I already explained this.

Oh, sure, some of them are very selective. Some of us would rather follow what the church teaches.

And people do disagree... just like some gays don't believe in safe sex, many catholics believe in no birth control, but then have abortions.

Quite the opposite.

That is, six in 10 women having abortions experienced a contraceptive failure

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/prabort2.html

And it seems like catholics have a higher rate of abortion

What's the rate of abortion for catholics, Ming? You say that they have more abortions in total, but there are also more Catholics than any other religion affiliation. You've given insufficient information.

You can have safe sex too... your point? You can't have an abortion without sex.

My point is that the problems you talk about are associated exclusively with abortion. No abortion, these problems go away.

Again... your point? Some gays practice safe sex, others don't. Some catholics follow ALL the church teachings, and many don't. The facts are clear... Catholics are the leaders when it comes to having abortions and killing innocent children. You can moan all you want that they aren't following the teachings, but they are still catholics.

Sure. I'm arguing that they wouldn't have abortions if they followed what the Church taught. You are arguing that if they didn't follow what the church taught that they would be more likely to have an abortion. This isn't true at all.

Oh... so it's a matter of degrees.

Sure is.

The abortion rate for Catholic women was 22 per 1,000 women

Again, according to AGI.

The groups that were the most likely to have an abortion were those affiliated with "other" religions or no religion at all, with abortion rates of 31 and 30 per 1,000 women, respectively.

AGI once more.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3422602.html

So your argument is flawed. We would reduce the Abortion rate by having more Catholic women.

[giblets]

So monogamy is a pointless word? Interesting argument.

Wow, I didn't know you had a problem with monogamy.

[Ben Kenobi]

Would you rather be sodomized or have an abortion? Answer my pointless question.

So monogamy is a pointless word? Interesting argument.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, health should not be your main argument.

Depends on the audience. There are plenty of studies that show increased substance abuse and all manner of pathologies associated primarily with homosexuality.

Lasting arguments against homosexuality has to be religous based, anything else is subject to change.

I'm pretty confident that these health issues aren't going away.

My argument against homosexuality is religious based. I believe it's against God's will, as written in the Bible. But neither you or me can, neither should we, force anyone to adhere to our religious beliefs.

I agree. I'm not arguing that gay people should be forced. I'm arguing something quite different. I'm arguing that it is in their best interests.

We can be open about it, as honest men should, but ultimately it's their lives, and we can only answer for our own.

I think one of our responsibilities is to warn other people that their decisions have an impact on them that they may not have considered. So while ultimately it is their choice to go ahead, we still have a responsibility to make it clear.

As such, I support gay rights to a point. I don't support gay marriage, but I support gays' rights to live their lives in peace and with legal rights to organize their relationships. I think that's what's called gay unions in English?

It's called civil unions on this side of the pond. Personally, I think gay people should be able to designate someone legally to look after their affairs, etc. but I believe certain privileges should be restricted to married couples.

Anyway, you are in your right to voice your opinion, so am I, and so are rah, gribbler or MrFun. But you should do yourself a service and place your arguments where they really belong: In the religious sphere.

You are right that God is very clear about what he expects of us, what is sinful, what is not, and that the place of sex is in marriage between a man and a woman.

However, I wouldn't expect people who do not know God or Christ to find the religious argument compelling.

[giblets]

Answer the question.

Would you rather be sodomized or have an abortion? Answer my pointless question.

[MOBIUS]

Ben is basically a racist homophobe, I seriously don't understand why he hasn't been banned from this site already because he is unrepentant about his views - not to mention the fact that he is, in essence, a pathological liar!

Why does this site tolerate him, why does apolyton allow racist and homophobic views to be posted on this site without punishment...?

It's clear he won't change, so instead he is allowed to peddle his hatred and bigotry at will.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do my big words confuse you?

Answer the question.