Christianity ruins families.

[Al B. Sure!]

Muslim in Islamic lands... pay Zakat at 2.5%
Christian in Islamic lands... pay Jizya (less than pre-Islamic tax rate), avoid military service

Christian in Christian lands... pay 10% of year's product (agricultural or crafts)
Muslim in Christian lands... N/A

Simple.

enlightening fact on Jizya...

It seemed, however, that from the economic point of view, it did not constitute a heavy imposition, since it was on a sliding scale, approximately one, two, and four dinars, and thus adjusted to the financial capacity of the taxpayer

The Jizya was a progressive tax even!

[Al B. Sure!]

Oh yeah and Ben, would you care to share with Apolyton the consequences of not paying "Peter's Pence"? Tithing was MANDATORY in Christian Europe. You would get killed if you did not pay God's due!

[Elok]

The Word has far more emotion and mystical in it than how a lot of Christians and non-Christians tend see it (though props to the Orthodox Church, which has always embraced the mysticism of God).

Awesome, somebody here appreciates us!

I think calling BK a bigot is an oversimplification. While he certainly qualifies, the word implies a blind rage, while the impression his posts give off is one of deliberate, carefully considered ignorance. There are no doubt many facets to his personality, but the part responsible for his most loathed behaviors appears to be a deep submissive streak; he is simply uncomfortable with the idea of thinking and acting on his own behalf, so like some sort of deranged ronin-philosopher he latches onto his ideology for mutual defense. It's only a partly-formed theory of mine, but it would explain his curious detachment from consistency and basic sense, not to mention the lack of shame.

Now stop arguing with him, all of you. You're just making yourselves look ridiculous.

[Al B. Sure!]

It's not tithing Albert. Does a Christian die if he fails to pay the church? No. Tithing is optional, and is prompted by a desire to give.

It's not imposed and collected at the end of the sword.

Zakat:

As a mandatory requirement of Islamic faith, every year 2.5 percent of one's wealth is given away to the poor

Tithing is mandatory in Islam.

Anyway, Ben, you can say whatever you want but you are not giving an ounce of effort to defend Christian treatment of Jews, Muslims, heretics, and other nonbelievers. The Christian record is atrocious.

[Al B. Sure!]

The ancient inhabitants of the Middle East (Phoenicians, Babylonians, Canaanites, Philistines, Egyptians, etc. etc.) were never exterminated. They assimilated into the conquering populations of Persia, Greece, Rome, and finally, Arabia, whose military force only consisted of a few thousand men (desert nomads are never numerous). Your average modern Lebanese has Phoenician ancestors. Your average Iraqi has Babylonian and Assyrian ancestors. Etc. Etc.

[Ben Kenobi]

It is tithing.

It's not tithing Albert. Does a Christian die if he fails to pay the church? No. Tithing is optional, and is prompted by a desire to give.

It's not imposed and collected at the end of the sword.

Instead of paying a tithe demanded from Muslims, Christians payed the Jizya... and tax rates under Arab rule were lower than under Byzantine or Persian rule.

Were they permitted to own property or was their property confiscated?

[Al B. Sure!]

It's no different then slavery.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT SLAVERY IS?

HOW THE **** IS PAYING A TAX WHICH EVERYONE ELSE (MUSLIMS) HAVE TO PAY ANYWAY AND BEING EXEMPT FROM MILITARY SERVICE EQUIVALENT TO SLAVERY?!?!?!

[Ben Kenobi]

So now you're saying that the Israelites were the original owners of that land

Never said that. All I said is that Israel was the homeland of the Jewish people a thousand years before Christ. You've finally admitted this is true.

because they EXTERMINATED the former owners and therefore, those lands are Israeli because the are no openly Hittite people around... or rather, Christian for some bizarre reason.

Do you know anything about the Hittites? The Hittites weren't wiped out by the Israelites.

As for the rest, does that mean you admit that they were not Arabs? I thought you were saying that these people were Arabs.

[Al B. Sure!]

It's no different then slavery.



Oh wow. What a thrilling compromise.

So if we don't pay money to Islam we die? Great. I can see how that is so tolerant.

You want to know why Corsica has a black head on a pike? This is from killing the moorish pirates who would routinely take Christian slaves.

What happens to a Christian who owns property? Is the property confiscated?

DO YOU KNOW WHAT ZAKAT IS?!

It is tithing. Instead of paying a tithe demanded from Muslims, Christians payed the Jizya... and tax rates under Arab rule were lower than under Byzantine or Persian rule.

[Al B. Sure!]

They aren't Arabs, Albert.



According to scripture, they were put to sword.

These folks, especially the Hittites, were not Arabs, Albert. They don't exist anymore.

What happened to the Cretans? They aren't there anymore either. Peoples, tribes and nations have all died out.

So now you're saying that the Israelites were the original owners of that land because they EXTERMINATED the former owners and therefore, those lands are Israeli because the are no openly Hittite people around... or rather, Christian for some bizarre reason.

You're PSYCHOTIC!!!!! YOU MAKE NO SENSE!!!!! DO YOU EVEN READ WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

[Ben Kenobi]

Even if that were true, would that be ANY worse than how Christians treated Muslims?

It's no different then slavery.

One, I earlier referenced how paying Jizya exempted Christians from Zakat and from military service...

Oh wow. What a thrilling compromise.

So if we don't pay money to Islam we die? Great. I can see how that is so tolerant.

You want to know why Corsica has a black head on a pike? This is from killing the moorish pirates who would routinely take Christian slaves.

What happens to a Christian who owns property? Is the property confiscated?

[Ben Kenobi]

How the **** are they not Arabs?

They aren't Arabs, Albert.

What THE HELL do you think happened to the MILLIONS of people living in the Middle East when the Arab conquests occurred?

According to scripture, they were put to sword.

These folks, especially the Hittites, were not Arabs, Albert. They don't exist anymore.

What happened to the Cretans? They aren't there anymore either. Peoples, tribes and nations have all died out.

[Al B. Sure!]

No, they didn't allow Christians to continue practicing their faith. They had a choice. Pay the Jizya or die.

Even if that were true, would that be ANY worse than how Christians treated Muslims?

One, I earlier referenced how paying Jizya exempted Christians from Zakat and from military service... Plus, more from wiki:

The change from Byzantine and Persian rule to Arab rule lowered taxes and created greater religious freedom, and was thus welcomed by many Jews and Christians. Nevertheless, taxation was a concern for non-Muslims who paid a higher tax than the zakat tax paid by Muslims.
The jizya tax was very successful in persuading many non-Muslims to convert to Islam, although during the first century after the Arab conquest of Syria and Palestine, conversion to Islam was not encouraged "partly because the jizyah constituted an important source of state revenue

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE A RAW DEAL FOR A CHRISTIAN AT ALL?!

[giblets]

No, they didn't allow Christians to continue practicing their faith. They had a choice. Pay the Jizya or die.

"pay the jizya" isn't "convert to islam"

[Ben Kenobi]

Conquered who, Albert?

You say these are the Arabs today. Where's the evidence?