Christianity ruins families.

[MOBIUS]

About the only thing this thread has really proved is that ALL religions are evil!

[Nikolai]

To the OP: Tell that woman that she should read her Bible and behave, Asher. No real Christian should behave that moronic. It should be easy: Be open about your beliefs, don't compromise, but let others have their beliefs and respect that. Of course, respect goes both ways, but from this it sounds like that woman is to blame.

[Ben Kenobi]

Unfortunately, BK has come back to the thread now.

I guess it is unfortunate.

I'm glad to have my opinion shared by someone you respect so greatly as Barnabas.

The opinion is *exactly* the same. Do you not see this?

[giblets]

I guess it is unfortunate.

I'm glad to have my opinion shared by someone you respect so greatly as Barnabas.

The opinion is *exactly* the same. Do you not see this?

Barnabas hasn't claimed the jizyah was equivalent to slavery, the US didn't conquer Native American lands but in fact liberated them, Jews have a right to the holy land, Hawaii became part of the US voluntarily, the crusades were defensive in nature, muslims worship a rock, etc., etc., etc.

He expressed a reasonable view, and when you claim your opinions are identical I'm not buying it.

[David Floyd]

BK, you claimed that land was "given" to Israel. Who gave it to them? I assume you mean God.

Why in the **** should this be relevant legally?

[Ben Kenobi]

BK, you claimed that land was "given" to Israel. Who gave it to them? I assume you mean God.

Why in the **** should this be relevant legally?

Never did say that their legal claim was because God gave the land to them. Their legal claim comes from the 700 years that they resided in the land.

This claim is greater than anyone elses.

[Ben Kenobi]

Barnabas hasn't claimed the jizyah was equivalent to slavery, the US didn't conquer Native American lands but in fact liberated them, Jews have a right to the holy land, Hawaii became part of the US voluntarily, the crusades were defensive in nature, muslims worship a rock, etc., etc., etc.

He expressed a reasonable view, and when you claim your opinions are identical I'm not buying it.

The primary claim I made is that Muslims lands were acquired through conquest, and that they should be given back.

That's what started this whole argument, and why everyone else rather then arguing this point kept changing the topic. Barnabas agrees with the main point I was trying to make.

[Elok]

Okay, we'll go along with this just for fun. Who exactly are the legal heirs to the Eastern Roman Empire? Greece? Should Turkey belong to Greece now?

[giblets]

The primary claim I made is that Muslims lands were acquired through conquest, and that they should be given back.

That's what started this whole argument, and why everyone else rather then arguing this point kept changing the topic. Barnabas agrees with the main point I was trying to make.

He doesn't even seem to be suggesting that... his point, if I'm not mistaken, was that it wasn't so bad for Christians to try to take it back. He never said they "should" be given back. You seem to think Muslims are morally obligated to hand it over even after all of these years.

[MrFun]

I guess it's time to give all the territory that United States took from Mexico, back to Mexico.

[Nikolai]

There are more crazy debaters here, btw.
The thing is that most of you guys agree most of the time with the guys Ben is debating with, and therefore you automaticly always consider Ben to be an idiot and his opponents to be pure sane. (little bit of black-white remark, I know )

It's just two complete different worlds that can never touch, and both worlds never even try to touch by imagining how it would be to be the other guy.

I often see where Ben's coming from, eventhough I disagree with him. (and sometimes I agree, but I would never admit that, b/c you'll all start to yell at me )
I get the idea that many of his opponents don't even see where he comes from or what his point is.

And there's of course always the thing that when someone is all by himself, he'll always start to shout louder.

Anyway, I salute Ben's bravery for continueing to stand up for his opinions in the lion's den.

Best post in this thread, period. I don't always agree with Ben and his debating, although I can see where he's coming from for the most part, but most of the treatment he's given here is below dignity.

[Ben Kenobi]

Who exactly are the legal heirs to the Eastern Roman Empire? Greece? Should Turkey belong to Greece now?

That's a good question.

I'd have no problem with it all going to Greece, short of Israel.

[Ben Kenobi]

was that it wasn't so bad for Christians to try to take it back. He never said they "should" be given back. You seem to think Muslims are morally obligated to hand it over even after all of these years.

Yeah, I do believe they are morally obligated to give it back. If it's not wrong for Christians to go to war to take it back, how is it wrong for it to be returned peacefully?

[Elok]

I take it you're also in favor of reparations for slavery? If mistreated black people are due recompense (true), then surely their great-grandchildren inherit that claim from the great-grandchildren of the ones who hurt them; mixed-race people should simply write themselves a check in proportion to how black they are, excluding any percentage of their heredity that happens to be Asian (Latinos are part Native American and, therefore, should get a separate check).

Also, all British of Germanic descent should live there only on sufferance from the Celts. Ditto France and, in fact, Germany. I'm guessing this leaves all the Germans living somewhere around Russia, or wherever the hell their tribes came from. All this, of course, is excluding the eighth or so of the European population descended in part from Genghis Khan or one of his soldiers; such foreign occupiers should be pushed way the **** back to Mongolia and make a living herding horses. It's called justice

[BeBMan]

Americans will get their continent back too