Christianity ruins families.

[Robert]

The veneration of the cross is dated to Helena's discovery of the True cross. The actual feast day and celebration was celebrated long before this time.

The veneration of the cross is only part of Good Friday.

This is not about the veneration of the cross, it's about the crucifixion of Christ.
Some believe that friday might have been a day for fasting and praying during the first 3 centuries of christianity, but not connected to the crucifixion.

BTW, do you believe that Helena has found the real cross?

Tertullian goes back to the late 2nd century. He's as old as the oldest biblical manuscripts.

Please show me the exact quotes of Tertullian, not the interpretation of the quotes.

[Berzerker]

Yes I do accept everything in the Bible as absolute truth.

So what was "generally" about? How is that not subjective? At least I let the science lead me to my belief system, if a conflict arises the science wins over existing beliefs. Thats more objective than your "absolute truth", and I'd like for you to show me where in Genesis it says God created the waters and the universe. Heaven and Earth are not what you think... We aint even talking about the same "God".

Agreeing with a bunch of stuff Jesus said doesn't mean you gotta buy into everything in the book...

And I've already asked you this, what makes you think that you can find out about God by observing the universe?

If God created the universe, the blueprint gives us insights into the Creator. We're just reading different books, but mine can be edited.

You're being stiff-necked. I've told you serveral times. God doesn't kill his children.

But that was the plan, right? Jesus had to die for our sins, true? How do you remove God from his own plan? God showed his love by having us kill his son, and you're here chastising me for subjectivity. Sorry, the creator (if there is 1) of the universe aint down here engaging in human sacrifice in the name of love.

Much less having people executed for gathering firewood on the Sabbath!

[Ming]

Their faith is not as strong as mine because their God did not send his only Son as a sacrifice so that they may live and be free from sin.

So you believe in your Myths, and they believe in theirs... What makes your myth any better than theirs? They probably think your myth is not as good as theirs. And none of you have any proof either way. It all comes down to faith.

So how do you prove your faith is stronger than theirs? Faith is Faith. And who are you to claim that you faith is stonger than theirs when you don't even understand their faith.

There are tons of different religions out their, what makes yours so special?
And if you only answer is a unproveable myth, they all have them too.

[zakubandit]

Asher, all I have to say.
Agreed.

[Flubber]

Ok

ASher-- I don't want to wade through a thousand posts to find out but how did the wedding go?

[Ben Kenobi]

it was during the 4th century that Christ’s crucifixion became the central theme of the date.

The veneration of the cross is dated to Helena's discovery of the True cross. The actual feast day and celebration was celebrated long before this time.

The veneration of the cross is only part of Good Friday.

Until the 4th century CE, Easter and Pentecost were the only two Christian holy days were observed

Very, very false.

In any case, all our earliest liturgical monuments both of East and West, for example the "Apostolical Constitutions" and the "Apostolic Canons", which are a still earlier document according to Funk and Harnack, are agreed in giving to Easter the place of honour among the feasts of the year.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03158a.htm#foundations

With it have naturally always been associated the commemoration of the events of Christ's Passion, the Last Supper on the Thursday, the Crucifixion on the Friday, and on the eve itself that great vigil or night watch when the paschal candle and the fonts were blessed and the catechumens, after long weeks of preparation, were at last admitted to the Sacrament of Baptism. Data are lacking concerning these separate elements in the great paschal celebration as it was observed in the earliest times. It may, however, be noted that in Tertullian the word pascha clearly designates not the Sunday alone but rather a period, and in particular, the day of the Parasceve, or as we now call it, Good Friday; while in Origen a definite distinction is drawn between two kindred terms: pascha anastasimon (the Resurrection Pasch on Easter Sunday), and pascha staurosimon (the Crucifixion Pasch, i.e. Good Friday); but both were equally memorable as celebrations.

Tertullian goes back to the late 2nd century. He's as old as the oldest biblical manuscripts.

[Robert]

@Ben:

http://www.isurfhopkins.com/local-news/5817-where-did-good-friday-originate.html

it was during the 4th century that Christ’s crucifixion became the central theme of the date.

http://www.churchyear.net/goodfriday.html

The celebration of Good Friday is ancient, and some of the practices associated with Good Friday are attested to by Egeria in the 4th century.

http://www.breadoflifebiblestudy.com/Lessons/33PaganHolidaysAndChristianity/Articles/Easter13.pdf

Until the 4th century CE, Easter and Pentecost were the only two Christian holy days were observed.

The early church did fast and pray usually on friday though. (Every friday, not connected to 'good friday' or Jesus' death.)
Later that may have been adapted to. Friday was a logical choice, last day before the Sabbath (which was kept by most Jewish Christians as well) and the Lord's day.

[Kidlicious]

Why does God make some people deaf? Does he hate them?

Everyone has limitations, not just deaf people. These limitations make us who we are, and give us our purpose, which is, in part, trusting in God.

[Ben Kenobi]

Only the adoration of the cross dates to Helena, the Feast of Good Friday dates well before this. The apostles did celebrate Good friday, just as they celebrated Easter.

'good friday' may very well have been 'good thursday', because passover is a 'sabbath' as well, and 2 sabbaths in a row was refered to as a 'great sabbath'. The celebration of good friday was 'invented' much later. There are good odds that the later early church made a mistake there.

Holy Thursday has also been celebrated since the time of the Apostles. They've never been conflated together.

[Kidlicious]

I guess people who believe in different gods and other relgions could probably say the same the about your beliefs Kidicious... What makes your beliefs any better than those who believe as strongly in other gods or no god at all. Faith and belief are not something restricted to Christ. Why is your faith or belief in Jesus any better than others beliefs in their gods? Who is to say that you are right and they are wrong?

Their faith is not as strong as mine because their God did not send his only Son as a sacrifice so that they may live and be free from sin.

[Kidlicious]

Generally? So you dont always accept God's opinions, or you dont always accept what the Bible says about God?

Yes I do accept everything in the Bible as absolute truth.

I've decided observing what we can of the universe may tell us about God.

And I've already asked you this, what makes you think that you can find out about God by observing the universe?

and I dont believe in showing my love for others by killing my children, or having them killed.

You're being stiff-necked. I've told you serveral times. God doesn't kill his children.

[Robert]

He's wrong. It's always been understood that Christ was crucified on a Friday.

If we go through the history, Good Friday has been celebrated since the time of the Apostles.

The original greek tekst says

μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνου τοῦ σαββάτου

(or: megale he hemega ekeinou tou sabbatou)

it was a great day.
A great sabbath refered to more sabbaths in a row, the day of passover was named a sabbath day as well.

The Apostles did not celebrate good friday. Only the day of the lord (sunday) was celebrated. It's when Helena visited Israel that these feasts were introduced.

[Robert]

Some late responses:

- 'good friday' may very well have been 'good thursday', because passover is a 'sabbath' as well, and 2 sabbaths in a row was refered to as a 'great sabbath'. The celebration of good friday was 'invented' much later. There are good odds that the later early church made a mistake there.

- the three of knowledge of good and evil symbolises who's the moral autority.
the hebrew word for 'knowing' also means 'posessing'. The one who knows good and evil is the one who decides on what is good and what is evil.

Eating from 'the tree' symbolises that human, like God, became it's own moral authority, and from that moment decided himself what was good and what was evil, which started most of the troubles. People making wrong decisions, disagreeing with each other. On top of that God doomed the earth.

I think it's a very strong parabel (or if you want to believe it happened literally, be my guest). Humanity is different from the animals b/c of our moral autority, and a lot (if not most or all) of our problems come from making wrong moral decisions or disagreeing about these (and use violence, hate, etc. to 'solve' it).

[giblets]

Why does God make some people deaf? Does he hate them?

[BlackCat]

Because in giving us true free will, we were also free to do good, and choose virtue.

But if we have "true free will", then we are also allowed to allow gay marriage, abortion and other things that may be against gods will without interfering from belivers of god. It is after all a god given right.