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What does modern Israel have in common with 1950's Alabama?

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  • Originally posted by ricketyclik View Post
    That's pretty unfair isn't it? That's like saying you have the same beliefs as the Welsh Nazi Party.
    Hey, you're the one comparing them to Nazis, not me...
    Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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    • Originally posted by Berzerker View Post
      Helen Thomas has been fired for telling the Jews to get out of Dodge

      That's a pretty outrageous clip.

      A rare moment of honesty? I wonder how wide-spread the sentiment is.
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      • hopefully not very. You'd think someone with around 60 years of press experience would be smart enough to keep her mouth shut.
        If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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        • She's old with a capital Q. I doubt she knew where the **** she even was....
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
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          • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
            I wonder how wide-spread the sentiment is.
            Not very. Her family background is actually Lebanese Arab so you can understand why she dislikes Israel. Honestly, she's 90 years old and old folks often have a couple of old fashioned ideas which were popular 50 or so years ago but which wouldn't be kosher to say in public now. She kind of reminds me of my old grandmother before she passed away; she was a sweet old lady but as she approached 90 she'd tell me stories about in the 1920's all the Protestant kids (like her) used to stop off on their way home from school to go throw rocks at the Catholic kids. I was like WTF? Sometimes old folks just let their mouth run away by itself.
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            • Yeah according to wikipedia, she's Christian Lebanese.

              It's interesting when there's a lot of prominent Arab Americans who nobody seems to know are Arabs (George Mitchell is another)
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              • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                That's a pretty outrageous clip.

                A rare moment of honesty? I wonder how wide-spread the sentiment is.
                Well considering her parents where Lebanese she might have had a slight grudge.
                Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

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                • Well, it turns out that the embargo wasn't a good idea after all. Who knew?

                  Consensus is emerging among some world powers and Israeli officials that attempts to weaken Hamas have failed.


                  June 10, 2010
                  Pressed to End Embargo, Israel Looks for New Policy
                  By ETHAN BRONNER
                  GAZA — Three years after Israel and Egypt imposed an embargo on this tormented Palestinian strip, shutting down its economy, a consensus has emerged that the attempt to weaken the governing party, Hamas, and drive it from power has failed.

                  In the days since an Israeli naval takeover of a flotilla trying to break the siege turned deadly, that consensus has taken on added urgency, with world powers, anti-Hamas Palestinians in Gaza and some senior Israeli officials advocating a shift.

                  In its three years in power Hamas has taken control not only of security, education and the justice system but also the economy, by regulating and taxing an extensive smuggling tunnel system from Egypt. In the process, the traditional and largely pro-Western business community has been sidelined.

                  This may be about to change.

                  “We need to build a legitimate private sector in Gaza as a strong counterweight to extremism,” Tony Blair, who serves as the international community’s liaison to the Palestinian Authority, said in an interview, reflecting the view of the Obama administration as well. “To end up with a Gaza that is dependent on tunnels and foreign aid is not a good idea.”

                  Businessmen in Gaza say that by closing down legitimate commerce Israel has helped Hamas tighten its domination. And by allowing in food for shops but not goods needed for industry, Israel is helping keep Gaza a welfare society, the sort of place where extremism can flourish.

                  “I can’t get cocoa powder, I can’t get malt, I can’t get shortening or syrup or wrapping material or boxes,” lamented Mohammed Telbani, the head of Al Awda, a cookie and ice cream factory in the central town of Deir el Balah. “I don’t like Hamas and I don’t like Fatah. All I want is to make food.”

                  Israeli officials say they have been working for months on a change of policy, but want to guard against helping Hamas or bringing renewed rocket attacks on Israel. They are less convinced than foreign leaders about the benefits of a full-scale tilt toward the business community, but they see room for increased activity.

                  “Hamas is strong,” acknowledged Maj. Gen. Eitan Dangot, the Israeli Defense Ministry official in charge of Palestinian civilian issues, in an interview. “It controls Gaza, and it doesn’t look like that is going to be changed in the coming months or maybe years. But we must protect our security while helping interests in Gaza that are not under Hamas’s control.”

                  For Israel, any shift in Gaza is complicated by the fact that Hamas has been holding one of its soldiers for four years. In addition, Israel does not want Hamas or its associates to gain credit for new relief.

                  This is a problem for Olfat al-Qawari, stuck in a makeshift tent with her husband and six children 18 months after their house was destroyed by an Israeli invasion. The Qarawis expected to get a donated trailer last year, but it went to a family loyal to Hamas, she said.

                  When a charity official told her that she would receive one of 200 prefabricated homes arriving on the aid flotilla, she was elated. When the Israeli Navy confiscated the cargo in the raid that killed nine Turks, she fell into despair. The group that had promised her the house was the Islamic Turkish charity known by the initials I.H.H., a sponsor of the flotilla.

                  Mehmet Kaya, who runs the I.H.H. office in Gaza, said his group sponsors 9,000 orphans, helps with a hospital and runs job skills training sessions. He said that the flotilla carried not only the 200 prefabricated houses but enough building materials for another 200. He was the one who promised Ms. Qarawi a house.

                  “We only work through Hamas, although we don’t limit our aid to its followers,” he said. “We consider Israel and the United Nations to be the terrorists, not Hamas.”

                  The I.H.H. cargo is sitting at the border in Israel, which is trying to find a more appealing partner to distribute it. That may prove difficult. Meanwhile, Turkish flags are fluttering across Gaza, people are giving their babies Turkish names, and Ms. Qarawi still lives in a tent.

                  “I fear we will die here,” she said of the rusting metal pipes and frayed plastic sheeting that serve as her home in the village of El Atatra in northwest Gaza. “They won’t have to move us far,” she added with dark mockery. “The cemetery is up the road.”

                  In truth, most of the post-war tents are gone now, and daily life is neither as awful as many abroad assert nor as untroubled as Israel insists. Instead, it has a numbing listlessness.

                  “In Gaza, no one is dying,” said Amr Hamad, deputy secretary general of the Palestinian Federation of Industries. “But no one is living.”

                  For Omar Shaban, who runs a research center called Pal Think, the key to understanding the impact of the siege and Hamas rule is to understand Gaza.

                  “Don’t compare us with Sudan or Haiti,” he said. “We are an educated people with 2 percent illiteracy. But Israel’s effort to say that everything is O.K. here is ridiculous. I can’t travel. Students are trapped.”

                  In June 2007 after winning parliamentary elections the previous year and uneasily sharing power with the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority, Hamas took full control in a four-day civil war, leaving the Palestinian Authority restricted to the West Bank.

                  Israel imposed the embargo, permitting in charitable goods and letting out people with medical emergencies. It invaded in late 2008 to stop a flow of rockets and destroyed thousands of buildings. With almost no construction materials allowed in, Gazans have scrounged from the rubble to create their own, but there has been only limited rebuilding.

                  Egypt, which dislikes Hamas for its Islamist ideology and Iranian backing, imposed the same closing from the south.

                  The idea was that the West Bank would prosper while Gaza would fester. That has happened, but it has done less to change the power dynamic than expected and has caused much suffering.

                  Mahmoud Daher of the World Health Organization said that both chronic and acute malnutrition have crept up, and hospitals wait up to a year for vital equipment like CT scanners, X-ray parts and infusion pumps. Mr. Hamad of the industries federation estimated that political loyalties in Gaza divided into equal thirds: pro-Hamas, pro-Palestinian Authority and independent, many in the private sector. He has been telling foreign officials that if they helped foster businesses, there could eventually be a majority coalition of non-Hamas parties here.

                  Under current circumstances, he said, the soil for extremism remained fertile.
                  “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                  "Capitalism ho!"

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                  • Israeli making shockingly stupid foreign policy decisions? I am surprised.
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                    • Three years after Israel and Egypt imposed an embargo on this tormented Palestinian strip, shutting down its economy, a consensus has emerged that the attempt to weaken the governing party, Hamas, and drive it from power has failed.
                      oh what a surprise...
                      "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                      "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                      • OTOH, it becomes clear why they are such close allies with the US.
                        Indifference is Bliss

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