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What does modern Israel have in common with 1950's Alabama?

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  • here are some facts about the israeli blockade of gaza from the bbc

    OVERVIEW: WHAT GETS IN

    For much of the three years since Hamas took control of Gaza, its 1.5m people have relied on less than a quarter of the volume of imported supplies they received in December 2005.


    In the wake of the Hamas takeover, Israel said it would allow only basic humanitarian supplies into the Strip. It has a list of dual-use items such as steel pipes and fertiliser which it says could be used to manufacture weapons.

    These are not allowed in, with the exception of "special humanitarian cases". Other than that, no specific list of what is and is not allowed in has been published, and items gaining entry vary over time.

    The UN relief agency for Palestinian refugees Unrwa's list of household items that have been refused entry at various times includes light bulbs, candles, matches, books, musical instruments, crayons, clothing, shoes, mattresses, sheets, blankets, pasta, tea, coffee, chocolate, nuts, shampoo and conditioner.

    Many other items - ranging from cars to fridges to computers - are generally refused entry.

    Building materials such as cement, concrete and wood were nearly always refused entry until early 2010, when some glass, wood, cement and aluminium were allowed in.

    During the six month truce between Israel and Hamas, which began in June 2008, and in early 2010, the volume and range of goods increased with trucks of shoes and clothes entering Gaza.

    Israel says Hamas has diverted aid in the past, and could appropriate building materials for its own use. Aid agencies say they have stringent monitoring systems in place.
    some further quotes regarding the effects of the blockade.

    the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation says 61% of Gazans are "food insecure".

    According to the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, Unrwa, 80% of Gazan households rely on some kind of food aid.

    Unrwa provides food aid for 750,000 people, half the population.
    with the Palestinian Bureau of Statistics estimating unemployment at 38.6% in early 2010, some Gazans cannot afford the basics, even if they are physically available.
    The blockade has taken its toll on Gaza's water and sewage network. Lack of spare parts has made repairs difficult. Intermittent power supplies have made pumps reliant on generators, which in turn have lacked spare parts and fuel.

    The WHO says Operation Cast Lead worsened an already bad situation. Before the operation, it says Gazans had only half the water they needed according to international standards, and 80% of water supplied did not meet WHO drinking standards.
    The UN says that when aid is discounted, 70% of Gazan families live on less than a dollar a day per person.
    The UN says restrictions on cement have made the reconstruction of 12,000 Palestinian homes damaged or destroyed in Israeli military operations "impossible".
    Before Operation Cast Lead, Gaza had only 133 hospital beds per 100,000 population, compared to 583 in Israel, and it lost some of that capacity in the fighting.

    Six hospitals suffered damage, including one that had a new building completely destroyed, another lost two whole floors.
    "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

    "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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    • Sounds like it's working

      Maybe someday they'll figure out that Hamas isn't getting them what they want.

      Comment


      • Also those hospitals were destroyed because Hamas was shooting missiles out of them. Karma is conserved.

        Comment


        • yeah it's certainly working to keep the palestinians of gaza hungry, in poverty, without the ability to build homes, schools and hospitals or have any economic development, or hope for the future. if that's what you mean by working.
          "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

          "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
            If we gassed the Gaza Strip we'd probably kill over a million terrorist sympathizers
            I agree at this stage.

            You would be a supporter of Hamas if you'd been subjected to the 'life' that Israel has imposed on the inhabitants of Gaza for the last few decades - or the way they've made them virtual refugees in their own territory entirely dependent on UN handouts in the last three years or so...

            In fact, is it any wonder when exposed to that sort of living purgatory that many would seek to take their own lives and kill as many of their persecutors as possible...?

            Clearly it's obvious that Israel's current tactics are utterly counterproductive and will only continue this unending cycle of violence...
            Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

            Comment


            • That's what blockades are supposed to do, right? So yeah it's working. As soon as the Palestinians are willing to live in peace it will end.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mortabis View Post
                Sounds like it's working

                Maybe someday they'll figure out that Hamas isn't getting them what they want.
                You insufferable little c*nt...
                Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mortabis View Post
                  That's what blockades are supposed to do, right? So yeah it's working. As soon as the Palestinians are willing to live in peace it will end.
                  please look up the phrase collective punishment, and while you're there you might stumble upon on some explanations about why it's both morally reprehensible and counterproductive. once you've educated yourself, then feel free to come back and join the adults for a discussion.
                  "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                  "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                  Comment


                  • Collective punishment seems to work very well in military training. Besides which, this blockade has dramatically reduced the number of rocket attacks AND reduced popular support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip in measurable ways. Two for two.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Wezil View Post
                      I can understand why Israel wouldn't want the UNHRC to look at this but the fact they reject any and all outside investigations tells me lots. It's a short list these days to be sure, but Israel does still have one or two friends in the international community.

                      What significant country invites or allows external investigations of controversial events?
                      (\__/)
                      (='.'=)
                      (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mortabis View Post
                        Collective punishment seems to work very well in military training. Besides which, this blockade has dramatically reduced the number of rocket attacks AND reduced popular support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip in measurable ways. Two for two.
                        On the first one you might be right. The second one I call BS. As long as the palestinians have a common external oppressor, it won't matter how bad hamas is to them. Israel will always be the enemy.

                        And collective punishment only works if all parties involved agree to it in some way (i.e. you signed on a contract when joining the army fully knowing what was awaiting you). I bet you if you would be born in Gaza you would hate the Israelis as well, not because of ethnics, but becuse they are the ones oppressing you.
                        "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mortabis View Post
                          Collective punishment seems to work very well in military training. Besides which, this blockade has dramatically reduced the number of rocket attacks AND reduced popular support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip in measurable ways. Two for two.
                          are you serious? we're not talking about a bunch of grunts who haven't cleaned their boots properly or some **** like that, but a massive civilian population which is being reduced to penury and made to go without adequate food and shelter, all in response to the actions of a few. do you really not see the moral problem with this?

                          if you think that the blockade is weakening hamas' hold on gaza, then feel free to provide some evidence of that.
                          "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                          "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                            If we gassed the Gaza Strip we'd probably kill over a million terrorist sympathizers
                            So you want to talk about gassing ethnic groups now?
                            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by C0ckney View Post
                              here are some facts about the israeli blockade of gaza from the bbc



                              some further quotes regarding the effects of the blockade.

                              How does that compare to what was done to Iraq under UN auspices?
                              (\__/)
                              (='.'=)
                              (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mortabis View Post
                                Collective punishment seems to work very well in military training. Besides which, this blockade has dramatically reduced the number of rocket attacks AND reduced popular support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip in measurable ways. Two for two.
                                What the hell? Do you even know how collective punishment works in boot camp?
                                "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                                "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                                Comment

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