UK Election Poll

[OzzyKP]

That sounds like an interesting proposal.

Though of course a more cynical person could suggest that you only want PR in cities because they are generally a lock for leftist parties anyhow and PR in cities only would boost the number of representatives for conservative parties.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Except for the fact that the people you are arguing currently (Ozzy and MikeH) with aren't arguing for PR. They are arguing for an assurance of the representative gaining 50% of the vote, through IRV or other STV.

[OzzyKP]

Which is a good way of putting it. The current system allows a candidate to win a constituency with only like 30% of the vote. How close of a relationship does that person really have with his district if 70% of the people reject them? IRV ensures 50% and is far superior over what they have now (or what we have now).

[MikeH]

Except for the fact that the people you are arguing currently (Ozzy and MikeH) with aren't arguing for PR. They are arguing for an assurance of the representative gaining 50% of the vote, through IRV or other STV.

BEN IN LACK OF READING COMPREHENSION SHOCKER!?! Who could have predicted it??

[Ben Kenobi]

Though of course a more cynical person could suggest that you only want PR in cities because they are generally a lock for leftist parties anyhow and PR in cities only would boost the number of representatives for conservative parties.

I'm for PR in cities because it simply makes more sense there, and it gives more natural city-wide representation. Instead of 17 Vancouver - Starbucks ridings you have just one, Vancouver. Same with Surrey and Victoria.

[Ben Kenobi]

Except for the fact that the people you are arguing currently (Ozzy and MikeH) with aren't arguing for PR. They are arguing for an assurance of the representative gaining 50% of the vote, through IRV or other STV.

The PR criticisms I've put forth apply to both IRV and STV, with the additional caveat that if we start looking at second choices, Labour and Lib Dem will dominate because there isn't a popular second choice for Conservatives.

If Labour and Lib Dem were more likely to list Conservative over each other I'd be less suspicious when Lib Dem supporters are such fervently in favour of electoral 'reform' to benefit them at the expense of everyone else and particularly directed at the Tories. Elections should be about picking the best candidate, not the least hated.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Seats won-

Tory - 306
Labour - 258
Lib Dem - 57

If we had proportional representation-

Tory - 234
Labour - 188
Lib Dem - 149

[OzzyKP]

The PR criticisms I've put forth apply to both IRV and STV, with the additional caveat that if we start looking at second choices, Labour and Lib Dem will dominate because there isn't a popular second choice for Conservatives.

If Labour and Lib Dem were more likely to list Conservative over each other I'd be less suspicious when Lib Dem supporters are such fervently in favour of electoral 'reform' to benefit them at the expense of everyone else and particularly directed at the Tories. Elections should be about picking the best candidate, not the least hated.

I think a number of Lib Dem voters would put Tories second. I think also such a system would entice the Liberals to move more to the right to become the second place option for Tory voters in Labour strongholds.

[Ben Kenobi]

Doubtful. I think Lib Dem will just do what Woodrow Wilson II is doing, full speed ahead on the progressive agenda and damn the opposition.

This is the money quote:

A budget is for one year. PR is until it can get repealed

[Imran Siddiqui]

The PR criticisms I've put forth apply to both IRV and STV, with the additional caveat that if we start looking at second choices, Labour and Lib Dem will dominate because there isn't a popular second choice for Conservatives.

So basically you are arguing for whichever electoral system has a better chance of electing the Tories over what is best for democracy (majority vote should always be stressed over plurality)

[Ben Kenobi]

If you had a run-off, I'd be fine with that.

[trev]

306 for Tories, 8 for Ulster Unionists, that should be enough for Cameron to take over if Sinn Fein do not take their seats, that is a majority.

[Ben Kenobi]

He'll be still short. He needs 322 if SF do not take their seats.

[C0ckney]

Seats won-

Tory - 306
Labour - 258
Lib Dem - 57

If we had proportional representation-

Tory - 234
Labour - 188
Lib Dem - 149

are there figures for the all the parties under PR?

[OzzyKP]

If you had a run-off, I'd be fine with that.

Well that's what instant run-off is. They just do it faster.