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US continues to export freedom: Pressures Canada in piracy (We're #1!)

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  • #91
    Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
    Border agents can search for pretty well any reason or none at all, IIRC.

    .
    They do have broader powers at the border


    3. Border Crossings

    The Simmons decision of the Supreme Court acknowledged Canada’s right as a sovereign state to control both who and what crosses its boundaries. The fact that those travelling through customs have a lower reasonable expectation of privacy does not, however, diminish the obligation on state authorities to adhere to the Charter, even if the grounds prompting the search are reasonable and drugs are found as a result of the search. Before any search, the inspectors must clearly explain the subject’s rights under the Charter - especially the prior right to consult a lawyer - and the right to have the search request reviewed before complying with it, as provided in the Customs Act. In Simmons, the subject remained ignorant of her legal position because she was not properly informed of these rights. As a result, the Supreme Court found that the search was unreasonable; even so, the evidence was not excluded since the customs officers had acted in good faith.

    The Supreme Court of Canada had held in several cases before Simmons that the invalidity of a search power does not render evidence inadmissible if the officers conducting the search believed in good faith that the statutory provisions governing the search were constitutional. In R. v. Greffe, however, "the inference of extreme bad faith on the part of the police [arising] from their deliberate failure to provide the accused with the proper reason for the arrest" resulted in the exclusion of the seized drug evidence.

    In Greffe, the R.C.M.P. had alerted customs officers in Calgary that the accused was returning to Canada with an unknown quantity of heroin. A visual search of his person was conducted after no heroin had been found in his luggage. He was not advised of his right to consult a lawyer or of his right under the Customs Act to have the search request reviewed by a justice of the peace, police magistrate or senior Customs Officer.

    No drugs were found and the suspect was arrested, informed of his right to counsel and advised that a doctor would perform a body search at a hospital. During the body search a condom containing heroin was removed from the accused’s anal cavity.

    The Supreme Court found that at the time of the search the police had not had reasonable and probable grounds to suspect that the accused had drugs on his person; the informer’s tip had not contained sufficient detail for the police to be sure that it was based on more than rumour. The informer had not disclosed the source of his knowledge, and the police had no indication of his reliability. Furthermore, there was confusion about the reasons the accused was given for his arrest. When combined with the lack of advice on the right to consult counsel, the "cumulative effect" of Charter violations was "very serious" and enough to warrant exclusion of the evidence.

    The Supreme Court of Canada has since concluded that section 98 of the Customs Act, authorizing searches for contraband "secreted on or about" the person, applies to contraband that a traveller has ingested. In R. v. Monney, the Court concluded that a customs officer who has reasonable and probable grounds to suspect that contraband has been ingested is authorized by the Act to detain the traveller in a "drug loo facility" until that suspicion can be confirmed or dispelled. Although such action amounts to a search for the purposes of section 8 of the Charter, the Court confirmed that "the degree of personal privacy reasonably expected at customs is lower than in most other situations" and that the search in question was "reasonable for the purposes."
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    • #92
      Originally posted by Asher View Post
      I, for one, am completely shocked that the National Post is so far up the Americans' asses it's not even funny.

      The content of the article is COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. Your article is not only off-topic, it's hilariously terrible.

      The RCMP are up American asses?

      RCMP officials have waded into the issue amid evidence that non-existent controls on counterfeit smugglers have attracted organized crime groups, who are reaping windfalls. One estimate of this black market in Canada is as much as $30-billion a year.

      This weekend, RCMP, other law enforcement, customs, business and trade experts are gathering in Toronto to launch the Canadian Anti-Counterfeiting Network to bring attention to this issue.

      ...

      The issue has gotten the attention of global watchdog, the International Anti-Counterfeiting Coalition, which is comprised of the world's largest brand-name companies. The Coalition has recommended that Washington's Trade Representative put Canada on its list of "priority foreign countries" such as China, Argentina and Mexico.




      Off topic?

      The blurb you pasted reads a bit strangely, but if you look at the document a bit closer you might notice that it is 'Prepared by the Office of the United States Trade Representative.'

      Is that 'Washington's Trade Representative' mentioned in the NatPost article? I think so.

      In the document prepared by 'Washington's Trade Representative' is Canada on the 'Priority Watch List' found in your source document and mentioned in the NatPost? It seems like it.

      What does your source document have to say on the subject of counterfeit goods?

      Trends in Counterfeiting and Piracy

      Counterfeiting has evolved in recent years from a localized industry concentrated on copying high-end designer goods to a sophisticated global business involving the mass production and sale of a vast array of fake goods, including items such as counterfeit medicines, health care products, food and beverages, automobile and airplane parts, toothpaste, shampoos, razors, electronics, batteries, chemicals, and sporting goods.


      I'd say it is pretty well on topic, or at least the part about border security having no power to stop counterfeit goods from entering the country.

      Illegal copies of movies would be another matter entirely, I think, and not one they would mention border agents in connection with considering it is not illegal to possess hacked copies of music or movies in Canada, is it?
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      • #93
        I'm still laughing at Eco's picture of the Mountie. If he only knew how true that caption really is.

        "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
        "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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        • #94
          Originally posted by Oncle Boris View Post
          True, their right to search goes far beyond that of the police, understandably so.

          Why not limit their powers to things that make sense at the border level?

          I think being able to seize counterfeit goods in commercial shipments would be pretty resonable. I think that is what Asher's highlighted blurb is about.

          The fact they can't is a bit shocking.

          'Oh look, here's a shipment of pills originating in China with GlaxoSmithKlien's trademark on them. Aren't they pretty? Pass 'em on. I hope they aren't for heart conditions.'
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          • #95
            Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
            The RCMP are up American asses?

            RCMP officials have waded into the issue amid evidence that non-existent controls on counterfeit smugglers have attracted organized crime groups, who are reaping windfalls. One estimate of this black market in Canada is as much as $30-billion a year.

            This weekend, RCMP, other law enforcement, customs, business and trade experts are gathering in Toronto to launch the Canadian Anti-Counterfeiting Network to bring attention to this issue.
            The police are always looking for more powers. The less their hands are cuffed, the better for them. Their wishes do not always coincide with society's.

            Off topic?

            The blurb you pasted reads a bit strangely, but if you look at the document a bit closer you might notice that it is 'Prepared by the Office of the United States Trade Representative.'
            I'm not sure you understand what "intellectual property" is, which is the topic in the OP.

            I will give you one hint on what "intellectual property" is: it's not baby food or batteries.

            I'd say it is pretty well on topic
            You can say it all you want, doesn't make it true. Topic is intellectual property, stick with it or make a new thread.

            Frankly, I'm firmly in the "don't give a ****" camp about counterfeiting. It's a separate topic from intellectual property rights.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
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            • #96
              Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
              I think being able to seize counterfeit goods in commercial shipments would be pretty resonable. I think that is what Asher's highlighted blurb is about.
              Seriously nye, what the ****?

              How many times does the quote SPECIFICALLY MENTION "INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY", "INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS", or IPR? It also specifically mentions COPYRIGHT and INTERNET PIRACY.

              It has **** all to do with counterfeit goods. It's 100% about intellectual property rights. Movies, ebooks, music, etc. Not baby food or batteries or designer shoes.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Asher View Post
                The police are always looking for more powers. The less their hands are cuffed, the better for them. Their wishes do not always coincide with society's.


                I'm not sure you understand what "intellectual property" is, which is the topic in the OP.

                I will give you one hint on what "intellectual property" is: it's not baby food or batteries.

                It's also trademarks and patents.

                Viagra is indeed IP.


                You can say it all you want, doesn't make it true. Topic is intellectual property, stick with it or make a new thread.

                Frankly, I'm firmly in the "don't give a ****" camp about counterfeiting. It's a separate topic from intellectual property rights.

                The topic is the US 'Special 301 Report' wherein Canada is mentioned as a problem jurisdiction.

                I am trying to parse why the US report would mention Canada's border agents. The problem with counterfeit goods and the helplessness of Canada Customs on the subject is the best I can come up with.

                Again, it is not illegal to possess ripped tunes or cracked movies in Canada. Why would a report mention border agents not being able to seize what is not illegal in Canada in the first place?

                Oh, and you are incorrect regarding counterfeiting being seperate from IP.
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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Asher View Post
                  Seriously nye, what the ****?

                  How many times does the quote SPECIFICALLY MENTION "INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY", "INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS", or IPR? It also specifically mentions COPYRIGHT and INTERNET PIRACY.

                  It has **** all to do with counterfeit goods. It's 100% about intellectual property rights. Movies, ebooks, music, etc. Not baby food or batteries or designer shoes.



                  Intellectual property (IP) is a term referring to a number of distinct types of creations of the mind for which property rights are recognised--and the corresponding fields of law.[1] Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive rights to a variety of intangible assets, such as musical, literary, and artistic works; discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs. Common types of intellectual property include copyrights, trademarks, patents, industrial design rights and trade secrets in some jurisdictions.
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                  • #99
                    Furthermore, the report you used for the OP specifically mentions counterfeiting.
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                    • Originally posted by Ecofarm View Post
                      You seem to think that is the issue at hand. It's mostly because you have no idea with IPR entails beyond Hollywood, but that's ok... I only have a problem with you presenting your limited perception of the law as its primary pourpose, while lacking any evidence whatsoever that your idea of what is going on has ever occured to any meaningful extent.

                      +1
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                      • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                        It's also trademarks and patents.

                        Viagra is indeed IP.
                        Snipped the rest of this post and not responding to the following post as they are wastes of my time.

                        If someone was smuggling the formula for Viagra across the lines, it'd be an IP issue.

                        The article also specifically mentions INTERNET PIRACY and COPYRIGHT. I'm curious how one pirates Viagra over the internet whilst violating COPYRIGHT LAW.

                        This is a retarded discussion, so I'm ending it. The context of the snippit in the OP is very, very clearly IP in the context of pirated movies, music, games, and ebooks. We all know it, except you. That's on you.

                        The topic is the US 'Special 301 Report' wherein Canada is mentioned as a problem jurisdiction.

                        You obviously can't read. The topic is piracy in Canada pertaining to intellectual property.

                        If you wish to discuss counterfeit goods, which is never mentioned in either the subject of this thread nor the OP, you can do so in another thread where people who give a **** can post about it.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
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                        • True, it does mention internet piracy, as an aside...


                          The United States will continue to follow Canada’s progress toward implementing an adequate and effective IPR protection and enforcement regime, including its progress on actions to address Internet piracy and improve border enforcement.


                          But hey! Let's pretend that this is all about internet piracy... actually... it's all about internet piracy by people with a movie or two on their laptop... Sure.
                          Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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                          • Originally posted by Special 301 Report
                            This Report reflects the Administration’s resolve to encourage and maintain effective IPR protection and enforcement worldwide. It identifies a wide range of serious concerns, ranging from troubling “indigenous innovation” policies that may unfairly disadvantage U.S. rights holders in China, to the continuing challenges of Internet piracy in countries such as Canada and Spain, to the ongoing systemic IPR enforcement challenges in many countries around the world.
                            Positive accomplishments recognized in this year’s Report include improved efforts by trading partners the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland, all of whom have been removed from the Watch List. Additionally, after successful Out-of-Cycle Reviews in 2009, Saudi Arabia was removed from the Watch List, and Israel has entered into an understanding with the United States whereby it will address key outstanding IPR issues.

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                            • Originally posted by Ecofarm View Post
                              True, it does mention internet piracy, as an aside...
                              Not as an aside. It mentions it 3 ****ing times in the paragraph alone.

                              The ENTIRE CONTEXT of the paragraph is internet piracy, intellectual property rights, and copyright infringement. I don't know how anyone can even pretend to argue otherwise.

                              And no, nye, ****ing baby formula and viagra do not constitute intellectual property.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                              • What kind of baby formula?
                                Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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