US continues to export freedom: Pressures Canada in piracy (We're #1!)

[N35t0r]

Anyway, if I run into my house with stolen goods (and the cops see me run in there with the stolen goods)... yes... the cops can come in without a warrant. They will not need a court order... BECAUSE they have reasonable suspicion and probable cause. Do you know anything about the law?

OK, so it would be OK for laptops to be confiscated if the cops see me downloading something. Which I do all the time while crossing the border.

What is proposed equals a cop going into your house just because he feels like it.

[Ecofarm]

People have stuff seized without court-orders every day, a thouand times.

Are those all illegal?



No, N35... not just because he feels like it. There still needs to be reasonable suspicion and probable cause for the search and the seizure. This law only says that there need not (additionally) be a court order.

"Court order", get it through your head. That is all that is removed; probable cause and reasonable suspicion remain as requirements.

[N35t0r]

No dude.

You can claim all kinds of wild BS about every law on the book...

I'll start ignoring strawmen from this point onwards. KTHKSBYE

how it will be abused, used against minorities, used by crooked cops... So what?? No law is beyond abuse. Arguing that a law is no good because it is not abuse-proof is stupid. No law is abuse-proof. If our basis for passing a law is that it be abuse-proof, we will never pass another.

Easily abused != abuse-proof

[SlowwHand]

They can byte me.

[Ecofarm]

Dude, this law does not say cops can act without reasonable suspicion and probable cause.

Don't ****.


It just says they do not need a court order, which normally cops do not need anyway.

Cops, yes - even in Canada - do not normally need a court order to execute a search and seizure. They usually just need reasonable suspicion and probable cause.

So apparently, Canada is already full of "illegal" searches and seizures.

[N35t0r]

People have stuff seized without court-orders every day, a thouand times.

Are those all illegal?

Over here? They would be.

[Ecofarm]

Bull****.

Cops in Canada search and seize everyday, thousands of times, without court orders.


But if the US wants to do it at the border... suddenly it's fascism. wtf.

[giblets]

Where does the statement say border guards will need reasonable suspicion and probable cause? That's just your assumption...

And what the hell is reasonable suspicion that someone's possessions contain pirated movies/music?

[Ecofarm]

Where does the statement say border guards will need reasonable suspicion and probable cause? That's just your assumption...

Oh, come on!!


If the law removed the need for probable cause and reasonable suspicion, don't you think they would have mentioned that along with the removal of the need for court orders?!


You really think this law removes the need for probable cause and reasonable suspicion?!


I guess I should not be surprised. Some people seem to think it means cops can take whatever they want and keep it without a trial. So hey, you aren't the biggest dumbass in this thread.

[N35t0r]

Bull****.

Cops in Canada search and seize everyday, thousands of times, without court orders.


But if the US wants to do it at the border... suddenly it's fascism. wtf.

Your assumption that I live in Canada is funny.

[giblets]

There isn't a law, there's just a statement from teh US government saying that Canadian border guards should be allowed to seize "suspected infringing materials" sans court order.

Now if such a law were made, what would be grounds for suspecting that materials are infringing intellectual property?

[Ecofarm]

Correct.

Not "sans cause or suspicion".

In fact "suspected infringing materials" carries with it probable cause and... guess what? Reasonable suspicion.



I'm not going to argue with you about what constitutes probable cause or reasonable suspicion. I bet it's pretty much the same as every other law. First, you want to claim the law removed probable cause and reasonable suspicion. Now you want to claim those things do not matter. Pathetic.

[N35t0r]

Answer the question.

I'm intrigued as to what can make a border guard suspect that someone he's never seen before carries around warez on his pc.

[Ecofarm]

Why do I need to explain to you what probable cause or reasonable suspicion is? I'm not a cop or an attorney. Go ask one.

Go ask the supreme court.


If you want to argue that probable cause and reasonable suspicion are meaningless... knock yourself out. While you are at it, though, you might want to get re-writing our legal precedent for the last couple hundred years - because, apparently, something we have relied on for centuries is entirely without use or purpose.

[giblets]

In fact "suspected infringing materials" carries with it probable cause and... guess what? Reasonable suspicion.

Says who? Doesn't say reasonable suspicion, which is a US specific term anyway.

The statement just says that Canadian border guards should be allowed to seize things that they suspect are in violation of intellectual property.