Is the organic food movement the most anti-science social movement out there?

[giblets]

People don't starve because of the amount of food, but because of the distribution. This is true today. What makes you think organic production should be any different?

There is a relationship between food prices and starvation, and a relationship between supply and price.

Also, organic food sells for more at the market. The organic market has pulled many small farmers out of poverty in the developing world. You are looking at the issue completely one-sided.

If they had teh modern conventional methods, they could produce more crops and get more money.

Technology
coming up with bull**** reasons to pay more for stuff

[Ecofarm]

Fine, remain an idiot for now. Someday you'll learn and look back on this disgusting display of ignorance.

I'm not going to counter your out-dated BS again and again.

[giblets]

Conventional methods are unsustainable.

1. Monoculture.
2. Water use.
3. Synthetic fertilizer (oil) use and unintended impacts, especially cultural eutrophication.
4. Synthetic pesticides (oil) use and unintended impacts, especially on non-target organisms and habitats.
5. Soil management, we lose so much soil in the US every year you don't even want to know.
6. Crop varieties, chosen for shelf-life and uniformity at the expense of nutrition.
7. Genetically modified crops have a slew of unintended consequences including impacts on biodiversity, non-target organisms, and power-structures via intellectual property rights.


Now, once we learn that conventional methods are unsustainable. If everyone was fed sufficiently by conventional methods, we would quickly spend all of our soil, water and biodiversity. Just like the whole world getting washers and dryers... impossible. Then, we need to look for methods of making our agriculture more sustainable. Thus was born the organic movement.

The problem with organic is all of the teh conventional methods are bundled together and rejected out of hand in all situations. Farmers should look at each one individually, and weigh the costs and benefits

[giblets]

Fine, remain an idiot for now. Someday you'll learn and look back on this disgusting display of ignorance.

I'm not going to counter your out-dated BS again and again.

Isn't this supposed to be your field of expertise? Shouldn't you be pwning everyone?

[Ecofarm]

Each of those issues, individually, is unsustainable conventionally. I'm not a partisan b1tch, for politics or science. I'm a by-the-issue kind of guy; I'm not looking for a group to be an orc for.


Dude, you are just repeating the same BS spouted by the father of the "green revolution" (read: industrial agriculture) decades ago. You cannot seriously place your spamming of a lame old quote above my reasoned counters.

[giblets]

Dude, you are just repeating the same BS spouted by the father of the "green revolution" (read: industrial agriculture) decades ago.

Decades ago? So when does the unsustainability of conventional agriculture kick in?

[Ecofarm]

He spouted that BS around the time it became abundently clear that industrial agriculture was not sustainable, decades ago. He was defending himself and his creation, and his arguments have been proven shallow and unsatisfactory many times since.


But you think some de-bunked old quote by someone of undeniably extreme bias somehow trumps all of my reasoned arguments.

[giblets]

You cannot seriously place your spamming of a lame old quote above my reasoned counters.

Now, here is an actual quote:

"some of the environmental lobbyists of the Western nations are the salt of the earth, but many of them are elitists. They've never experienced the physical sensation of hunger. They do their lobbying from comfortable office suites in Washington or Brussels...If they lived just one month amid the misery of the developing world, as I have for fifty years, they'd be crying out for tractors and fertilizer and irrigation canals and be outraged that fashionable elitists back home were trying to deny them these things"

[Ecofarm]

If they lived just one month amid the misery of the developing world

All of my professors have spent years in the developing world. I've lived there for months.

I've been hungry before. With the army in deserts and swamps without shelter, and in the developing world when the fire didn't catch because of rain.

[giblets]

He spouted that BS around the time it became abundently clear that industrial agriculture was not sustainable, decades ago.

So when is our "unsustainable" agricultural system going to collapse? Would you like to provide an estimate?

[Hauldren Collider]

WTF? Our agricultural system currently overproduces...

[Ecofarm]

I'm not so worried about the collapse, and I'm not into speculation - I don't ascribe to peak-oil or AGW.

I'm worried about the largely irreversible (and well documented) damage it does everyday.

[giblets]

I'm not so worried about the collapse, and I'm not into speculation - I don't ascribe to peak-oil or AGW.

I'm worried about the largely irreversable (and well documented) damage it does everyday.

You seem pretty confident there will be a collapse.

[Ecofarm]

No, I'm confident there will be a transition. People wake up every day. The organic market has expanded like 100% every year for almost two decades. While the movement remains shrouded in the shadow of fat, selfish USians... it still grows. Perhaps this generation's wave will not break.

[giblets]

No, I'm confident there will be a transition. People wake up every day. The organic market has expanded like 100% every year for almost two decades.

Source?

I mean that's a million-fold increase in two decades.

While the movement remains shrouded in the shadow of fat, selfish USians...

Yeah, people who don't feel a need to smugly overpay for food are fat and selfish...