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Is the organic food movement the most anti-science social movement out there?

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  • I don't have a quote for that 70% handy, I forget where I got it. But I found this while looking:

    These studies show that organic eggs from hens raised on pasture offer better nutrition than typical supermarket eggs. Eggs from free range, grass fed chickens contain more nutrients than caged birds. In fact, free range eggs contain:

    •four to six times more vitamin D
    •one third less cholesterol
    •one quarter less saturated fat
    •two-thirds more vitamin A
    •double the amount of omega-3 fatty acids
    •three times more vitamin E
    •seven times more beta carotene

    These numbers are related to a comparison done by Mother Earth News between commercial eggs and eggs from fourteen flocks of free range chickens from around the country.
    Mother Earth is not the first to find differences. In 1988, Artemis Simopoulos, co-author of The Omega Diet, found that organic eggs from pastured hens in Greece contained 13 times more omega-3 fatty acids than commercial eggs from the United States.

    In 1974, a British study found that eggs from pastured hens had 50 percent more folic acid and 70 percent more vitamin B12 than eggs from factory-farmed hens.

    In 1997, a study in Animal Feed Science and Technology found eggs from free-range chickens had higher levels of both omega-3 fatty acids and vitamin E than those from hens maintained in cages and fed commercial diets.

    Most recently, in 2003, Pennsylvania State University researchers reported that birds kept on pasture produced three times more omega-3s in their eggs than birds raised in cages on a commercial diet. They also found twice as much vitamin E and 40 percent more vitamin A in the yolks of the pastured birds.

    In addition to being less nutritious, it’s no secret that eggs from commercially raised, confined chickens contain antibiotic residues. In Modern Livestock and Poultry Production, a book by James Gillespie, there’s a chart of the amount of antibiotics added to chicken feed in confinement operations. I counted no less than eleven different antibiotics listed that are added to the feed given confined chickens.

    It’s quite logical to conclude that without these antibiotics, the eggs and meat from these confined chickens would have much higher amounts of salmonella and other bacteria counts.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Real Life Experiences with Fresh Eggs

    We have 14 chickens, which stay outside all day long, scratching and scavenging as they like. We feed them scraps from our kitchen, plus some commercial feed, a practice necessary here in Wyoming where green grass and bugs are sparse for most of the year.

    Chickens are scavengers and omnivores, and they need protein in addition to plant foods. Bugs, grubs and worms provide this protein and contribute to the chicken’s optimal state of health.

    If allowed, they will spend a great deal of their time scratching and scavenging over wide areas, looking for food.

    I’ve read on other websites the claim that chickens will stay close to feeders, but anyone who says this has obviously never owned chickens.

    When we let our chickens range freely over the entire yard, they will spend all day ranging the length and breadth of at least 4 acres around the house, and never once go back to the fenced in area where the feeders are located. Only at dusk, do they file back into the fenced area, so they can get to their roosts for the night.

    The fresh eggs from these chickens, in my experience, look and taste different than commercial eggs. Our fresh organic eggs have bright orange yolks. The orange color, I think, related to grass, vegetation and bugs that the chickens eat. Both the yolk and egg whites stand up high when cracked into a skillet. The shells of both our white and brown eggs are extremely strong, and I sometimes have a hard time breaking them open.

    The taste of fresh egg yolks is stronger and richer, and indeed the entire egg just tastes fresher than a commercial egg. We have made homemade eggnog and ice cream from our fresh eggs, and both were outstanding in flavor and texture.

    theemuparadise.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, theemuparadise.com has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!
    Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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    • That appears to be a result of free range, which is a separate issue. Not sure what makes free range chickens "organic" other than marketing.

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      • Free range is just one part of organic. Organic is free range plus organic food only plus no sub-theraputic antibiotics and no hormones. Of course, chickens can be free range but not organic, and are still better than conventional (though probably not quite as good as organic).


        Now, if we can move forward, it is also social.

        The conventional practices of animal husbandry are atrocious and cruel. This establishes a base from which society can justify horrible cruelty. It is a small step from torturing animals to torturing people, and breakfast is our first violent act every day.


        The organic food movement is economic, social, ecologic and for some spiritual. All the impacts of conventional farming must be measured and considered, and then we must ponder what is sustainable (economically and ecologically) and what represents justice both social and inter-generational. For social justice aspects, see also: intellectual property rights.
        Last edited by Ecofarm; May 3, 2010, 13:34.
        Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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        • That appears to be a result of free range, which is a separate issue.



          QFT

          The retards have pretty much given up on trying to show any scientific evidence that "organic" food is worth producing and are now trying to bring grass-fed and free range livestock into the conversation so they have something to hang their hat on.
          KH FOR OWNER!
          ASHER FOR CEO!!
          GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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          • Originally posted by Ecofarm View Post
            Free range is just one part of organic. Organic is free range plus organic food only plus no sub-theraputic antibiotics and no hormones. Of course, chickens can be free range but not organic, and are still better than conventional (though probably not quite as good as organic).
            Okay, so the difference in quality doesn't really have much to do with organic.

            The conventional prcatices of animal husbandry are atrocious and cruel. This establishes a base from which society can justify horrible cruelty. It is a small step from torturing animals to torturing people, and breakfast is our first violent act every day.
            I don't see a connection between eating animals someone else tortured and personally torturing people, but I agree that not enough is being done to ensure humane treatment of animals.

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            • It's not separate business, Drake you fkn ****. Free range is one of the requirements for organic.


              @Grib:

              As far as measurable personal health impacts, the organic benefits are probably mostly from being free-range; however, improved diets and healthy environments surely improves the animals as well.


              Many serial killers started by torturing animals. Torturing animals is a big "red flag" when it comes to an unstable mind. And it is something we start every day with. We might not think about it conciously, but deep-down we know that we sht all over life and decency with our conventional agriculture - and, somewhere, it justifies doing so elsewhere.
              Last edited by Ecofarm; May 3, 2010, 13:42.
              Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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              • Free range is one of the requirements for organic.



                No, it isn't. I already covered this with FakeBoris, you idiot.
                KH FOR OWNER!
                ASHER FOR CEO!!
                GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                • Organic production requires outdoor area per animal in excess of free-range certification.



                  Once someone has actually investigated and researched the unsustainable impacts of conventional farming and how those are mitigated by organic farming, it becomes almost intolerable to listen to an idiot claim that conventional agriculture is just fine. It reminds me of how deeply ignorant people can be and still take sides.


                  Drake has got to be the all-time champion of being a total idiot on a subject yet taking sides and inventing whatever BS suits his agenda (see also: Carson caused malarial outbreaks in the third world). This is ironic, because it is what KH claims he hates the most - and yet they are buddies... why? Are they both fat little bastards who like underage boys?
                  Last edited by Ecofarm; May 3, 2010, 13:50.
                  Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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                  • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View Post
                    and are now trying to bring grass-fed and free range livestock into the conversation so they have something to hang their hat on.

                    Given that the "they" in question is the farming industry, you have to admit that there's a certain substance to it.

                    You can argue semantics, and that's fine- but when the semantic arguments bring you into opposition with reality it's usually time to move on.
                    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

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                    • Does that count as pwning everyone now (no offense to grib, I'm thrilled he would actually listen)?

                      Am I done here?


                      Can we close this lecture hall and go with what we got, or is there something else I should explain?


                      I almost forgot, for grib:

                      Organic uses less water in general (drip irrigation, etc), but not in the rules. Sometimes, organic production is a monoculture utilizing unsustainable water practices, this is true. This is why we need to move "beyond organics" and into "ecofarming" or something of the sort. We should note, though, that organic soils generally have a much higher organic matter content and thus retain water better, allowing it to be used more efficiently and increasing yields in droughts.
                      Last edited by Ecofarm; May 3, 2010, 14:08.
                      Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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                      • You can argue semantics, and that's fine- but when the semantic arguments bring you into opposition with reality it's usually time to move on.



                        My argument isn't opposed to reality in America. I couldn't really care less about what goes on in England, as your agricultural industry is irrelevant from a global perspective.
                        KH FOR OWNER!
                        ASHER FOR CEO!!
                        GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                        • The UK (and all of Europe) import massive amounts of cut flowers from Africa that are produced in pesticide-fogged greenhouses, kill the average worker in 10 years and pollute the rivers so badly that cows die from drinking river water.

                          The US does it with S. America.

                          I had a debate with a globally recognized professor during a conference, about weighing the ecologic damage vs. the empowerment of women owners in such farms. It was not fun (I choose not to add her as an advisor). All she cared about was women getting money... kinda like a one-issue voter.


                          The developing world food-exports to the first world are almost the same (organic and fair-trade certification notwithstanding).
                          Last edited by Ecofarm; May 3, 2010, 14:20.
                          Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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                          • Drake has got to be the all-time champion of being a total idiot on a subject yet taking sides and inventing whatever BS suits his agenda
                            this pretty much sums him up. luckily, it's not hard to see through his bull****.
                            "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                            "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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                            • And yet you've never once gotten the better of me. What does that say about you?
                              KH FOR OWNER!
                              ASHER FOR CEO!!
                              GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                              • Drake, as usual, is flailing wildly.


                                You're done here. Take your fat little-boy-molesting ass and hit the road.
                                Everybody knows...Democracy...One of Us Cannot be Wrong...War...Fanatics

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