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  • I bring you...the awesomeness

    ROME — A senior Vatican priest, speaking before Pope Benedict XVI at a Good Friday service, compared the world’s outrage at sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic Church to the persecution of the Jews, prompting angry responses from victims’ advocates and consternation from Jewish groups.

    The Vatican spokesman quickly distanced the Vatican from the remarks, which came on the day Christians mark the Crucifixion. They underscored how much the Catholic Church has felt under attack from recent news reports and from criticism over how it has handled charges of child molesting against priests in the past.

    The pope and his bishops have denounced abuses in the church, but many prelates and Vatican officials have lashed back at news reports that Benedict failed to act strongly enough against pedophile priests, once as archbishop of Munich and Freising in 1980 and once as a leader of the Vatican’s powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

    The Vatican has denied that he was at fault, and Vatican officials have variously described the reports as “deceitful,” an effort to undermine the church and a “defamatory campaign.”

    Speaking in St. Peter’s Basilica, the priest, the Rev. Raniero Cantalamessa, took note that Easter and Passover fell during the same week this year, and said he was led to think of the Jews.

    “They know from experience what it means to be victims of collective violence, and also because of this they are quick to recognize the recurring symptoms,” said Father Cantalamessa, who serves under the title of preacher of the papal household. Then he quoted from what he said was a letter from a Jewish friend he did not identify.

    “I am following the violent and concentric attacks against the church, the pope and all the faithful by the whole world,” he said the friend wrote. “The use of stereotypes, the passing from personal responsibility and guilt to a collective guilt, remind me of the more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism.”

    Good Friday has traditionally been a fraught day in Catholic-Jewish relations. Until the liberalizing Second Vatican Council in the 1960s, Catholic liturgy included a prayer for the conversion of the Jews, and Catholic teaching held Jews responsible for the Crucifixion.

    The Vatican spokesman, the Rev. Federico Lombardi, stressed that Father Cantalamessa’s sermon represented his own thoughts and was not an official Vatican statement.

    Father Lombardi said the remarks should not be construed as equating recent criticism of the Catholic Church with anti-Semitism.

    “I don’t think it’s an appropriate comparison,” he said. “That’s why the letter should be read as a letter of solidarity by a Jew.”

    Yet the official Vatican newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, published the remarks in its Saturday edition, which appeared online on Friday evening.

    Even as the priest spoke out against attacks on the church, Archbishop Robert Zollitsch of Freiburg, head of the German Bishops Conference, said Friday that sexual abuse victims were not helped enough “out of a misplaced concern for the reputation of the church.”

    The church, he said, was shaken by “the suffering inflicted on the victims, who often for decades could not put their injuries into words.” Bishops around Europe have been offering similar remarks in recent days, following a major statement by the pope on molesting in the Irish church.

    Father Cantalamessa’s comments about the Jews came toward the end of a long talk about Scripture, the nature of violence and the sacrifice of Jesus. He also spoke at length about violence against women, but gave only slight mention of the children and adolescents who had been molested by priests. “I am not speaking here of violence against children, of which unfortunately also elements of the clergy are stained; of that there is sufficient talk outside of here,” he said.

    Disclosures about hundreds of such cases have emerged in recent months in Germany, Ireland, the Netherlands, Austria and France, after a previous round of scandal in the United States.

    A leading advocate for sexual abuse victims in the United States, David Clohessy, called comparing criticism of the church to persecution of the Jews “breathtakingly callous and misguided.”

    “Men who deliberately and consistently hide child sex crime are in no way victims,” he said. “And to conflate public scrutiny with horrific violence is about as wrong as wrong can be.”
    A Vatican priest compared the uproar over sexual abuse scandals to the persecution of Jews, but a spokesman said the words were not “an official statement.”


    Summary: Criticizing the Pope or the RCC for sheltering pervert priests is somehow similar to murdering Jews. AWESOME!
    1011 1100
    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

  • #2


    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

    Steven Weinberg

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    • #3
      Yeah, I didn't notice it there. And neither did anybody else, it seems. Besides, that thread is waaay past the point where it should've been locked.
      1011 1100
      Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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      • #4


        Actually, I agree with you, that your OP does deserve it's own thread - the stupidity is so immense. Just sad that when it get Benfected, it too will go down the drain.
        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

        Steven Weinberg

        Comment


        • #5
          The RCC is apparently full of Orthodox saboteurs who are trying to oversee its self-implosion.
          I'm consitently stupid- Japher
          I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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          • #6
            Nah, that's too obvious for us. Besides, we'd never agree on the exact nature of sabotage; the Russians would want us to plant one rumor, but the Greeks would object that planting that particular rumor was a filthy idea of modern syncretism dishonoring the martyrs and so on. The Russians, not to be outdone, would drag up the Greek alternatives and find something vaguely relevant in a quote from St. Seraphim. We'd never actually plant the rumor.

            So, believe it or not, this is all them.
            Last edited by Elok; April 3, 2010, 20:52.
            1011 1100
            Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

            Comment


            • #7
              Elok, I don't know what to say to you.

              Does it make you feel better to do this?
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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              • #8
                Does it make you feel better to pretend nothing happened?
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                • #9
                  You should be celebrating.

                  You have another convert. I hope he serves you better than he did his previous master.
                  Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                  "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                  2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                  • #10
                    So now you think Elok is an atheist because he condemns the Church's handling of the pedophiles?

                    Only true Christians support child rape by priests, is that right?
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                      Elok, I don't know what to say to you.

                      Does it make you feel better to do this?

                      Honestly, Ben, what do you feel when you hear that those people that you trust express such meaningless and insulting wordings ?
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So now you think Elok is an atheist because he condemns the Church's handling of the pedophiles?
                        No, I think that Elok no longer is a follower of Christ.

                        He serves a different master these days.

                        Only true Christians support child rape by priests, is that right?
                        This has nothing to do with this.

                        Everything to do with several things.

                        1, he is posting this on Easter.
                        2, he is happy that this is happening to the Catholic church.
                        3, he is celebrating sin.

                        So, whatever prompted Elok to throw his lot in with everyone else who hates Christ, well, I'm not sure. I hope he's happy with his decision.

                        There are many who call themselves Christian who actively work against Him these days.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Honestly, Ben, what do you feel when you hear that those people that you trust express such meaningless and insulting wordings ?
                          How do I feel?

                          I feel that the Catholic church is speaking exactly how I feel on a day to day basis. I don't see it as insulting to compare the persecution of the Catholic church with the persecution of the Jewish people. I would hope that the Jews would open their eyes and see that just because they are not the targets this time, does not mean that they will be spared.

                          The same people who hate us, hate them with a passion, and there are a great many people working to destroy Israel and her people.

                          That someone who calls himself a devout Orthodox believer has jumped into the fray here, I see as a sign of the times. He would rather follow his master than his true Master.

                          This is our holiest day of the year, Blackcat, and we have many threads on here bashing us. This tells me that there is a significant amount of hate for the Catholic church and what she stands for.
                          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                            No, I think that Elok no longer is a follower of Christ.

                            He serves a different master these days.
                            Satan?

                            God, you are a tool.

                            This has nothing to do with this.

                            Everything to do with several things.

                            1, he is posting this on Easter.
                            He is posting this on April 3rd. You are posting this on Easter, not him.

                            2, he is happy that this is happening to the Catholic church.
                            You're a ****ing douchebag. He's celebrating the blatant stupidity of a senior Vatican priest. Any intelligent person could see this.

                            3, he is celebrating sin.
                            No, you're the one celebrating sin.

                            You are an evil man, Ben. You may or may not be a pedophile, but you're certainly not much better by backing up the Church's actions in enabling priests to become repeat pedophiles.

                            Shame on you.
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                              1, he is posting this on Easter.

                              There are many who call themselves Christian who actively work against Him these days.
                              Ben,

                              The Rev Raniero Cantalamessa was speaking at Good Friday prayers in St Peter's Basilica, attended by the Pope.

                              Father Cantalamessa said Jews throughout history had been the victims of "collective violence" and drew a comparison with recent attacks on the Roman Catholic Church.
                              Are you saying that Raniero Cantalamessa are working against his master ?

                              BBC, News, BBC News, news online, world, uk, international, foreign, british, online, service
                              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                              Steven Weinberg

                              Comment

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