Canada declares war on Switzerland

[Asher]

Asher, where did I say that Iggy wasn't a respected player?

Yes, all you're doing is asking for people to provide citations for every positive thing said about Iginla.

There are two possibilities here:
1) You are surprised by the claim
2) You genuinely don't know a damn thing about hockey

Which is it? It's both, by the way. Sorry to spoil that, but you need all the help you can get.

How could you not know? Seriously? Every hockey fan knows this ****.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, all you're doing is asking for people to provide citations for every positive thing said about Iginla.

Asher, what is it that I do for a living?

Again, where have I ever in all my years here said that Iggy was not a respected player?

1) You are surprised by the claim
2) You genuinely don't know a damn thing about hockey

1, I'm not surprised by the claim. Personally I consider this point to be a trivial exercise. What I find amusing is that you think it's a great victory to prove your own assertion.

[Asher]

Asher, what is it that I do for a living?

Best I can tell you live in your mother's basement and collect disability.

1, I'm not surprised by the claim. Personally I consider this point to be a trivial exercise.

If you thought it was a trivial exercise you wouldn't need citations. ****in ****.

[Ben Kenobi]

Best I can tell you live in your mother's basement and collect disability.

I have my own apartment and I tutor students. This is part of what I teach. It's also something I get paid to do in research.

It doesn't matter whether something is considered 'trivial' or not, there has to be a citation.

[-Jrabbit]

Ben, you seem to be avoiding the actual discussion you started, which was whether Iginla deserved to be on the team.

It seems crazy to me that the tournament's leading scorer, a man playing with the top line (or 2nd line, I don't actually know), could even be considered as undeserving to even be o the team. Even if there was legitimate second-guessing prior to the Olympics, it's just unfathomable to me that anyone could, after the fact, actually continue holding that opinion.

Of course, if it's just all Ashertrolling, fair enough. But at least man up and admit it.

[Ben Kenobi]

It seems crazy to me that the tournament's leading scorer, a man playing with the top line (or 2nd line, I don't actually know), could even be considered as undeserving to even be o the team. Even if there was legitimate second-guessing prior to the Olympics, it's just unfathomable to me that anyone could, after the fact, actually continue holding that opinion.

Here's why.

1 Martin St Louis TBL R 61 22 49 71
4 Dany Heatley SJS R 62 32 34 66
5 Corey Perry ANA R 62 22 37 59
6 Rick Nash CBJ R 63 28 29 57

Are you going to tell me that the correct choice is to not play the hottest RW in the Olympics? Yet, that is the decision Yzerman made.

All I am saying is that Martin St. Louis was more deserving of the team than Iggy. That's it.

[Asher]

There's more to the game than scoring.

If Martin St Louis was where Iginla was in OT, that goal wouldn't happen. Simple as that.

It was Iginla's strong boardwork in addition to his skilled passing that made that play happen. St Louis is a terrific scorer, but he's not good along the boards.

This has been told many times...but Team Canada was about role players. You would have them take each position and take the top scorers by the roster deadline from each to form the team. Fortunately, Steve Yzerman is a far smarter man than you are.

The simple fact is, Iginla was instrumental in winning that game. He deserved to be on the team, quite clearly.

[Ben Kenobi]

If Martin St Louis was where Iginla was in OT, that goal wouldn't happen. Simple as that.

Martin St. Louis is considerably better at passing the puck. St.Louis has 60 percent more assists. I don't know how you can speculate that Iggy would make a pass that St. Louis would not.

It was Iginla's strong boardwork in addition to his skilled passing that made that play happen. St Louis is a terrific scorer, but he's not good along the boards.

I won't contest this. However, St. Louis is the better passer overall. Would you not expect him to make more passes over the course of a game to Crosby than Iginla would?

This has been told many times...but Team Canada was about role players. You would have them take each position and take the top scorers by the roster deadline from each to form the team.

I've listed my team. Are you suggesting that there are not 'role players' on the team that I listed up higher in the thread? I haven't just picked the 'best players'.

The simple fact is, Iginla was instrumental in winning that game. He deserved to be on the team, quite clearly.

I'm not so certain that his performance was significantly better then St. Louis. Iggy wasn't a force in the big games, and that to me would have been a concern as a GM.

[Asher]

I give up. You're too far gone.

Iginla didn't deserve to be there. You're obviously right, given the outcome. Good for you.

[Drake Tungsten]

Ben really needs to be banned after this performance.

[Flubber]

A couple of points

1. Are you seriously assertinmg that people provide citations for obvious facts in an internet debate Really???

2. Asher has conclusive thrashed you and now you are trying to say yiou never disputed the facts but mrely wanted a citation? Thats pathetic.

They lost to USA 5-3. How on earth did they outplay USA? USA beat them, or is that too hard to admit?

Goaltending is important.

1. Really goaltending is important? I never knew that . I guess I imagined all those posts I made on the importance of goaltending.

2. Ben to 99.99% of people out there, "outplay" is not a synonym with "won". You knew from my many posts on the matter that Miller outplayed Brodeur by a wide margin and if you want a cite, I cite this thread. The topic was the composition of the team with respect to everyone but the goalies. Go check . I know who won the game.


So when talking about the forwards and defence, I re-iterate that Canada outchanced, outshot and outplayed their opponent in every game in the tournament. Yes in two games Canada's goalie was badly outplayed by his opposing netminder but I don't see how that changes my statement in relation to the composition of the team outside the goalies.


lastly-- almost every commentator, pundit etc that commented made reference to how much better the USA played in the final. How can this be as didn't Canada win? Could this perhaps be because the common usage of the language about a hockey team playing better is usually and commonly a reference to the players outsdie their goaltender.

Oh and I'm not getting you a cite. Go find it yoiurself. It should not be hard to find a coach saying "our team played very well but their goalie stood on his head" or ' we didn't play very well tonight but Luongo/Brodeur/Fleury/Hiller/halak held us in the game"

All those coaches know that goalies are part of their team and they also know goaltending is important but it is frequent and common usage to often talk about how your 'team' played somewhat in isolation from your goalies performance. Everyone knows what people mean and only a pedantic fool would seem to assert you cannot "outplay a team" if you did not win the game

[Drake Tungsten]

Talking about how you "outplayed" another team in a game you lost is loser-talk.

[Ben Kenobi]

2. Asher has conclusive thrashed you and now you are trying to say yiou never disputed the facts but mrely wanted a citation? Thats pathetic.

Why is this pathetic? If Asher's going to rely on nebulous qualities like respect, you'd better be damn sure I'm going to get a quote on this.

2. Ben to 99.99% of people out there, "outplay" is not a synonym with "won". You knew from my many posts on the matter that Miller outplayed Brodeur by a wide margin and if you want a cite, I cite this thread. The topic was the composition of the team with respect to everyone but the goalies. Go check . I know who won the game.

And I am disputing your assertion that Team Canada outplayed Team USA in the 5-3 game. Sure they got more shots, but Miller vastly outplayed Brodeur. I don't see why you are so blind to it. I'm just as Canadian as you are, and I think they played like crap that game.

lastly-- almost every commentator, pundit etc that commented made reference to how much better the USA played in the final. How can this be as didn't Canada win? Could this perhaps be because the common usage of the language about a hockey team playing better is usually and commonly a reference to the players outsdie their goaltender.

Well sadly, goaltending is a part of the game. If you were saying that Team Canada 'outworked' team USA, I''d agree with you. Outplayed, no.

[-Jrabbit]

Keep those goalposts moving, Ben!

[Flubber]

Keep those goalposts moving, Ben!

QFT