The future of India in your opinion [srsly]

[Elok]

Now, I've never been to India, or any country near it, but I have had some Indian food so that gives me some qualification to judge. I think that right there is part of the problem, the food; you eat all that spicy food in a tropical climate, you get indigestion, you get cranky, next thing you know you're in one of those Hindutva riots.

Hindutva, "Hinduness." Well, that's all fine up to the point, and Hinduism has done okay so far. Not great, but okay. They've got a good track record. There's always room for improvement, you know. All those millions of minor gods, you've got major duplication of functions, causing inefficiency. India should clean out a couple of million and consolidate, maybe consider a merger with Islam. Barring that, I foresee extended problems and possible loss of deities. For example, what exactly keeps the cat-headed gods from eating the rat-headed gods?

Worst of all, however, is the disturbing tendency to solve problems with massive, elaborate dance numbers. While this does cheer the young, handsome and censorially-forbidden-to-get-nekkid couple up somewhat, it ties up a lot of people who could otherwise be contributing to India's economy, which as far as I can tell consists mostly of customer service. Ideally, the singing and dancing would be integrated with the customer service, thereby increasing customer satisfaction. Get the censors to do it, that way hero-guy can finally get him some curvaceous booty while they're distracted.

Finally, there's the bit where a lot of sacred waterways are choked up with roiling masses of human excrement. That's a puzzler there. Has India considered removing the excrement, or at least not putting any more excrement in its water supply?

[Dinner]

I see India as 20 years behind China but finally starting to become a dynamic place instead of an over regulated economic waste land. The truth is if you're in the top echelon then you get a world class education but something like 40% (or more) of the population remains illiterate so it is obvious a very large segment of the population is simply ignored for even basic services. Compared to China the infrastructure is a mess but slowly getting better (albeit not as quickly as China is progressing) so there is hope that things will get better though I see them as having more structural problems to over come then China so I don't see them really being a competitor to China any time soon especially since child labor is still wide spread and around 700 million people are forced to live on less then $2 per day. Most of use blow much more then that just on lunch and topping off the gas tank.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Now, I've never been to India, or any country near it, but I have had some Indian food so that gives me some qualification to judge. I think that right there is part of the problem, the food; you eat all that spicy food in a tropical climate, you get indigestion, you get cranky, next thing you know you're in one of those Hindutva riots.

Hindutva, "Hinduness." Well, that's all fine up to the point, and Hinduism has done okay so far. Not great, but okay. They've got a good track record. There's always room for improvement, you know. All those millions of minor gods, you've got major duplication of functions, causing inefficiency. India should clean out a couple of million and consolidate, maybe consider a merger with Islam. Barring that, I foresee extended problems and possible loss of deities. For example, what exactly keeps the cat-headed gods from eating the rat-headed gods?

Worst of all, however, is the disturbing tendency to solve problems with massive, elaborate dance numbers. While this does cheer the young, handsome and censorially-forbidden-to-get-nekkid couple up somewhat, it ties up a lot of people who could otherwise be contributing to India's economy, which as far as I can tell consists mostly of customer service. Ideally, the singing and dancing would be integrated with the customer service, thereby increasing customer satisfaction. Get the censors to do it, that way hero-guy can finally get him some curvaceous booty while they're distracted.

Finally, there's the bit where a lot of sacred waterways are choked up with roiling masses of human excrement. That's a puzzler there. Has India considered removing the excrement, or at least not putting any more excrement in its water supply?

Bravo!

[Heraclitus]

India will never reach China's level unless we see radical change for the worse in China in the next 50 years. It will however, if it dosen't collapse, match or even surpass the US by 2060. I suspect India may have a severe dysgenic breeding pattern problem and that it may have exausted too much of its biological capital [ecological and genetic] for a true reneisance. While its elite is competent and inteligent its real problem is democracy. The many social issues may ruin the countries chances by the time it passes the 2 billion mark.



I also predict India will have a standard of living comparable to that of Britain by 2100. I base this on the assumption that in around four generations (three for English, Scots and Welsh) the British Isles will reach a population of around 110 million and will have an average IQ of around 88. India despite its issues will be vastly better off relative to the rest of the world even if all else fails due to technological progress. The British may be slightly better off than today or a about the same depending on your optimism.

[Kitschum]

Hindutva, "Hinduness." Well, that's all fine up to the point, and Hinduism has done okay so far. Not great, but okay. They've got a good track record. There's always room for improvement, you know. All those millions of minor gods, you've got major duplication of functions, causing inefficiency. India should clean out a couple of million and consolidate, maybe consider a merger with Islam.

They already tried that with Sikhism, which combines the turbans of Hinduism with the honor killings of Islam. It didn't really take off.

[Riesstiu IV]

Sikhism is balls to the wall awesome compared to whatever boring ass Protestant sects that Swedes belong to. If you are a Sikh, you get to carry a dagger with you at all times, you must always be prepared to defend your family's honor, you get to grow a bad ass beard, and Sikhs often hear the cry of the warrior. It's pretty much like being a Klingon only the food is much better.

In Sikh scripture, the sword actually predates the creation of the universe: "After the primal manifestation of the sword, the universe was created."

Another good thing is Sikhs aren't proselytizing arseholes. The first rule of Sikhism: You do not talk about Sikhism.

[Kitschum]

If Klingons murdered their daughters for dating non-Klingons, then yes, Sikhs are like Klingons.

[Riesstiu IV]

Sikh honor killings are very rare and it's more of a messed up cultural aspect with all Indo-Iranian peoples, regardless of religion. Kurds, Syrian Christians, Hindus, and Muslims do honor killings as well.

I wouldn't be here right now if Sikh honor killings were that prevalent.

[Kitschum]

I'm not at all sure it's that rare considering the relatively small amount of Sikhs, and the kind of hurdle they probably already have to overcome to even consider going against the family's wishes. It's the flipside to all that jazz about honor and swords.

I don't think it is quite correct to describe honor killings as an aspect of Indo-Iranian peoples, whatever that is supposed to be. It happens in Arab Islam as well, and among other religions who live near a lot of Muslims. Copts do it, and Yezidis (who are Kurds like you mentioned) do it, which is a shame because that is also a very cool religion if not for.

Edit:

I wouldn't be here right now if Sikh honor killings were that prevalent.

I thought I'd might get a reaction by calling out Islam, but not Sikhs. Cool.

[Ben Kenobi]

In a serious response, I think India will be the superpower of the 21st century, not China.

[onodera]

The median quality of life in India will not reach anything remotely comparable to the first world standards in the foreseeable future. There are simply too many people.
Indian economy has a great potential, as cheap indigenous workforce of any level of qualification is readily available. However, it suffers from the need to employ as many as possible. The wages are not a problem, the resulting efficiency is. India needs a MASSIVE growth spurt that will mobilize its population if it wants to become a significant international player. Right now it's an elephant, too large to be harmed, but too slow to be feared. If it wants to become a tiger, it needs a HUGE jolt.

[Ben Kenobi]

The median quality of life in India will not reach anything remotely comparable to the first world standards in the foreseeable future. There are simply too many people.

I'll wager in 20 years that their standard of living will exceed that of Russia. Deal?

[onodera]

I'll wager in 20 years that their standard of living will exceed that of Russia. Deal?

Median standard of living? Deal.

[Riesstiu IV]

I'm not at all sure it's that rare considering the relatively small amount of Sikhs, and the kind of hurdle they probably already have to overcome to even consider going against the family's wishes. It's the flipside to all that jazz about honor and swords.

The thing is, endogamy is a big deal in all social strata of Indian society. There is immense pressure on children to marry into their particular caste or religion but honor killings are only done by the fundamentalists. Most families that are concerned about who their children marry would not resort to such an extreme measure. They often might try to bribe or threaten to disown their child (and carry out that threat) but I don't think there are too many people willing to commit an honor killing.

I know this is only anecdotal evidence but my mother and her sisters often went against her father's strict religious dogma. The children were forbidden to see movies or read non-Sikh religious texts but they did anyway. Her dad would get mad at them but never violently mad. As they got older he resigned himself to the fact he could never control the direction of their lives. My mom got out of her arranged marriage and married a white Westerner without fear of retribution. Granted my mom was raised in a fairly well to do family but Punjab is comparatively well off these days compared to much of India.

There really aren't that many violent Sikh fundamentalists, especially these days. The Khalistan movement is pretty much dead and I think that owes itself a lot to the fact Sikhs have become some of the more economically well off and better educated groups in India.

[Kitschum]

Most families that are concerned about who their children marry would not resort to such an extreme measure. They often might try to bribe or threaten to disown their child (and carry out that threat) but I don't think there are too many people willing to commit an honor killing.

I imagine there to be a correlation between endogamy (and discouragment of exogamy) and occurrences of honor killing, especially in a group that feels itself encroached or worse acutely threatened by a wider, confident, alien culture (and other possible variables, such as the warrior tradition among Sikhs and Kurds). And even though I agree that the number of potential 'honor killers' walking around is most likely small and maybe shrinking, they might still reinforce social norms significantly in various ways - such as by threats, explicit or implicit, or by 'inspiring' others.

Consider the impact of the nonviolent 'alternatives' that you mention too. Open disdain that you feel is unfair by people you most likely identify very closely with and might depend on, or ostracism outright ruins lives as well.

When it comes to Sikhs I suspect that honor killings are about as rare as among conservative Muslims, but that is just a guess based on the cases you find if you google for it, keeping in mind the relative population sizes. But, although it probably doesn't lend itself so easily to measurement, while it is hyperbole to suggest that honor killing is common in an absolute sense among either Sikhs or Muslims, it can still be an extreme expression of a widely held and (for the individual) harmful tradition, and in that sense I stand by the 'flipside' remark.

I know this is only anecdotal evidence but my mother and her sisters often went against her father's strict religious dogma. The children were forbidden to see movies or read non-Sikh religious texts but they did anyway. Her dad would get mad at them but never violently mad. As they got older he resigned himself to the fact he could never control the direction of their lives. My mom got out of her arranged marriage and married a white Westerner without fear of retribution. Granted my mom was raised in a fairly well to do family but Punjab is comparatively well off these days compared to much of India.

Anecdotal evidence gets a bad rap. It is better than no evidence more than half the time.

It is not hard to think of potential explanations for why your mother felt no fear in what she did. Wealth as you say is one, and with it (positive) exposure to other cultures, including Western ones, the personal convictions and of the people involved, and her own stubbornness, the attitudes in the particular Sikh community they came from, that she could get out of there and move to another country (I'm assuming), and so on. I'm not trying to 'refute' your anecdote though, just expanding on it a bit.