Top 10 Anti-Christian Acts of 2009

[Elok]

Christ was sentenced to death. But he came back to life in direct violation of the law.

Obviously you've never been to ancient Roman law school. While the law does per se require an ad hominem death, nowhere in the text semper fi does it specify that the executed remain dead ex cathedra. The "Jesus Incident" set important precedent for the 47 CE suit Gaius v. Guy who called him "Gay-wad-us".

[Darius871]

Obviously you've never been to ancient Roman law school. While the law does per se require an ad hominem death, nowhere in the text semper fi does it specify that the executed remain dead ex cathedra. The "Jesus Incident" set important precedent for the 47 CE suit Gaius v. Guy who called him "Gay-wad-us".

truth

[Kidlicious]

When did He defy it? He submitted tamely to the guards, made no attempt whatever to flee or escape. Barely even defended Himself against the accusations.

http://http://www.cpt.org/resources/worship/services/jesus_CD

1. Jesus' first action was a public exorcism of a man with an unclean spirit in the Capernaum synagogue (Mark 1:23-26). He disrupts the cultic atmosphere. He exorcized the culture's possession of people. The man was amazingly cleansed from the unclean spirit of imperial violence which had been internalized.

2. The healing of the leper (Mark 1:40-42) was civilly disobedient because it went beyond the designated boundaries of society. Lepers were "outsiders." Buy touching him, Jesus became a marginalized outsider too. He broke social and religious laws of behavior. (Gandhi also associated with India's "untouchable" cast.)

3. A third set of illegal actions includes Jesus' mingling with the outsiders: sinners, tax collectors, prostitutes, the sick, the dying, the hungry, widows, women, fishermen, and children. He declared (Mark 3:34) his total union with the poor and oppressed. By eating with the marginalized (Mark 2:15) Jesus publicly embraced all who were excluded by societal laws.

4. Working and healing on the Sabbath constitute a fourth series of civil resistance actions: (Mark 2:23) plucking grain by the disciples (their first public action was illegal!) Mark 3:1-6 healing of the withered hand; Luke 13:10-17, healing of the woman, Luke 14:1-6 healing of man. For Jesus, mercy and human needs preceded regulation and rule.

5. This addresses the economy of militarism , the business of war which allowed the imperialistic forces of Rome ("legion") to control people (Matt. 8:28-34). The man possessed by the unclean spirit represents the poor who were under the oppressive and violent Roman military occupation. Jesus also called for the economic conversion from profits and oppression to justice and disarmament. Then, as now, Jesus' message was scandalous and radical.

6. Jesus challenged the religious leaders by breaking the legalized religious dietary codes used to manipulate and oppress (Mark 7:1-23). Not washing hands before eating could result in condemnation and ostracization. Essentially, Jesus called for a return to the basics of justice and mercy (Luke 11:37-43). He used very strong language ("Woe to you!")

7. Jesus was constantly fraternizing with the enemy: loving one's enemy was dangerous, subversive activity and yet it is the hallmark of Jesus's teaching and life. In his time the enemies were Samaritans, Gerasenes, and Greeks. (John 4:4-43 – the Samaritan woman; Mark 4:35-41– enemy territory). When crucified by enemies, he prayed, "Forgive them!"

8. The street theater of the donkey ride into Jerusalem is considered a satire on the military parades of the empire (Luke 19:29-40). He is demonstrating how a real liberator acts: in humility, nonviolence, and simplicity. The procession is public and political, like Gandhi's salt march to the sea or King's march from Selma to Montgomery.

9. The climax is Jesus' nonviolent direct action at the temple, the public center of the Jewish-Roman system, which kept the people subdued and oppressed. By wrecking the tables, Jesus symbolically throws over the imperial and religious domination (Mark 11: 15-18). He quotes Isaiah and Jeremiah who regularly condemned the Temple-state system and called for justice and peace.

10. Following the Temple action, Jesus continues to stress obedience to God. High on the list is not to pay taxes to Caesar – a revolutionary declaration (Mark 12:13-17 etc.) Dorothy Day commented, "Once we give to God what is God's there is nothing left for Caesar." If the people followed Jesus in voluntary poverty and radical obedience to God, Caesar would be out of power. Recognizing the political nature of Jesus' Divine Obedience, the authorities arrested and killed him (Luke 23:2).

11. God raised Jesus from the dead and the resurrection was the ultimate act of nonviolent civil disobedience! According to God, suffering love and truth-telling (not the empire's law) always lead to resurrection and life. Thomas' "my Lord and my God" was an act of faith and an expression of love for Jesus. Beyond that it was an act of political "blasphemy" because the emperor had been declared God. "The resurrection inspired the disciples to practice nonviolent civil disobedience as a way of life towards the ruling authorities of the day"

[Kidlicious]

What Jesus did was encourage others to defy the law. That's the ultimate defiance. That's why they crucified him. They didn't crucify him for being obedient.

[Boris Godunov]

Psst: The OP is a DL troll.

Oh I know, but there's at least one person here who will no doubt believe it unquestioningly and try to use it in future arguments as proof of the oppression against Christians in the U.S.

[Darius871]

Kid?

[MrFun]

BK

[Darius871]

I know, joking

[Kidlicious]

Kid?

Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!

[Berzerker]

Sigh. It did come from God, it's just that they couldn't prove that there was harm done prior to the woman being able to show.

So instead of clueing us in, God decided people shouldn't be punished for inducing an early abortion?

I'm not ignoring that at all. This is why Jesus told them not to hinder the children. Jesus rebuked the disciples many times.

And yet you agree we shouldn't take his rebuke literally, his followers aint suffering the fate he described.

Orthodox Jews (ie, the ones who actually believe in God), believe that personhood begins at conception.

Adam and Eve weren't conceived

Oh come on Berz. Stop being a *****. Answer the **** question. I've answered all of yours.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF ABORTION.

When you answer that I'll deal with the rest of your post.

I did answer, I dont know. I cant read the minds of the women who've had abortions.

I don't see how you can interpret his statement to Pilate that the power he was granted was under the oversight of God. Christian anarchy is unbiblical.

There is a logical interpretation - Jesus was calling upon Pilate to act above himself, ie a higher calling. For example, the Jews had ways of insulting the Romans without getting killed, the whore of Babylon references etc all = Rome sucks. And yet Paul's in a Roman jail and he's writing BS about how the Romans have God's authority etc. Gotta remember Jesus repeatedly tried to keep his followers out of harm's way, notice how Pilate washed his hands of the matter? Jesus spoke to him diplomatically - "Your Highness" - and Pilate didn't go after his followers, he even let Joseph take the body.

As for Christian anarchy, technically they weren't anarchists in that they didn't reject the authority of whatever govt was in control - but many early Christian communities were anarchic in their societal structure. It took almost 300 years to pervert Christianity...

[Ben Kenobi]

So instead of clueing us in, God decided people shouldn't be punished for inducing an early abortion?

No, that's why we have ultrasound. God was very clear, "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you."

And yet you agree we shouldn't take his rebuke literally, his followers aint suffering the fate he described.

Perhaps because they took the rebuke to heart? Do you seriously believe that Christ was bluffing when he said that if you cause a child to stumble you go to hell?

Adam and Eve weren't conceived

True, but every other person, including Christ has been conceived.

I did answer, I dont know. I cant read the minds of the women who've had abortions.

You don't know. The purpose of abortion is a dead baby. I'm not asking you to divine in your head what the woman is trying to do. The purpose of the act of an abortion is a dead baby. That's it. No more no less. When is an abortion a failure? When the baby is born alive.

There is a logical interpretation - Jesus was calling upon Pilate to act above himself, ie a higher calling. For example, the Jews had ways of insulting the Romans without getting killed, the whore of Babylon references etc all = Rome sucks. And yet Paul's in a Roman jail and he's writing BS about how the Romans have God's authority etc.

Yes, that's because Christians recognised that Rome had lawful authority. Christ appealed to Pilate in two ways, one, because he recognised Pilate's authority. And two, because he argued there was an authority higher than Pilate. Pilate choosed not to listen to Christ.

Gotta remember Jesus repeatedly tried to keep his followers out of harm's way, notice how Pilate washed his hands of the matter? Jesus spoke to him diplomatically - "Your Highness" - and Pilate didn't go after his followers, he even let Joseph take the body.

Very much so. I've found myself in a similar situation, in leading a group involved in civil disobedience. I found this model very instructive. 1, take only those who are willing to be with the group, and to suffer the consequences, and two, protect them as much as you can from the authorities and from others. Do not unnecessarily provoke hostility. Be diplomatic. It's a very high standard!

As for Christian anarchy, technically they weren't anarchists in that they didn't reject the authority of whatever govt was in control - but many early Christian communities were anarchic in their societal structure. It took almost 300 years to pervert Christianity...

Flat out false. Christians had an ordered heirarchy starting from the Apostles. Look at Acts. Acts talks about bishops priests and deacons.

[Berzerker]

No, that's why we have ultrasound. God was very clear, "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you."

He knew our parents? What does that mean?

Perhaps because they took the rebuke to heart? Do you seriously believe that Christ was bluffing when he said that if you cause a child to stumble you go to hell?

Thats right, I dont believe Jesus sends people to hell for keeping their children within their traditions and religions.

True, but every other person, including Christ has been conceived.

it takes more than conception to produce a person

You don't know. The purpose of abortion is a dead baby. I'm not asking you to divine in your head what the woman is trying to do. The purpose of the act of an abortion is a dead baby. That's it. No more no less. When is an abortion a failure? When the baby is born alive.

The purpose could be a living woman, it sure aint depriving Jesus of a relationship with a child.

Yes, that's because Christians recognised that Rome had lawful authority. Christ appealed to Pilate in two ways, one, because he recognised Pilate's authority. And two, because he argued there was an authority higher than Pilate. Pilate choosed not to listen to Christ.

Many Christian martyrs gave their lives challenging Rome's lawful authority.

Flat out false. Christians had an ordered heirarchy starting from the Apostles. Look at Acts. Acts talks about bishops priests and deacons.

Thats the church, not early Christian communities filled with "equal" followers/believers.

[SlowwHand]

Originally Posted by Ben Kenobi
No, that's why we have ultrasound. God was very clear, "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you."

Originally Posted by Berz
He knew our parents? What does that mean?



BERZ. He's talking about the child, not the parents. Not at this time. He already knew them before.

[Berzerker]

but what does it mean? God knows our futures? Or us? Our spirit or soul?

[Ben Kenobi]

Or us? Our spirit or soul?

He means us. It's a radical verse.

it takes more than conception to produce a person

What does it take?

Thats the church, not early Christian communities filled with "equal" followers/believers.

Where were these communities? Berz, I'm being 100 percent honest. Christians have always had priests, bishops and deacons. Right from the start. Acts is very early in the process, and they testify that the reason the church grew and christianity spread, is because they had this structure.