Deficit/Debt Discussion Thread

[Vanguard]

If it's a strawman then you should be able to explain what your actual definition is, you twit. I already gave mine 20 posts ago.

I withdraw the "straw man" accusation. It is high-school level argumentation. I had to rush that last post.

But I have not seen any "definition" of money from you. The nearest you have come is "usd", ie U.S. dollars (in the U.S).

But what is a "dollar"? Is it just legal tender paper currency? In that case my total supply of "money" is $5. I must be very, very poor.

Strangely though, I bought lunch today and it cost $9. And I put 18 gallons of gas in my car yesterday. And I stopped at the grocery and bought some stuff. All I had to do was slip a little plastic rectangle through a slot.

Presumably that little plastic rectangle is a form of money too, isn't it? But it isn't issued by a mint. It is not backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. So is it money or isn't it?

Your definition of money in the US being "usd" says nothing about this type of "money". All you are saying, when you boil it down, is "the units of exchange are the Units of Exchange. True. But meaningless.

Credit card dollars are not exactly the same as other dollars. The credit card company gets a cut of each transaction. So the dollar is only 98 cents to the business. Nor does the money for credit card purchase have to be printed. It simply comes into existence.

You ask me what my definition of money is. I don't know exactly. But I will meet your sarcasm head-on. You ask

Why not call equities money too?

Applying this directly to the forehead, I will say.... sure. Why not?

That is what Wall Street does after all. Treating assets as money is the whole basis of securitization. And the money that securitization generates is not printed in any mint. Due of leverage, 80% of it just comes into existence.

How can somebody create 80% of the dollar value of some asset? Well, they can do that because they use that money to buy a securitized asset. The two are market equivalent So, yeah, equities are money, once they are securitized.

Right up to the point when the market ceases to function.

[KrazyHorse]

.

How ****ing stupid are you?

USD is the money of the US, as are things convertible to USD at a fixed rate. Calling all liquid assets money makes the term useless.

[Dinner]

Yes, and your deficits are 30 times ours.

Everyone knows an American is worth 30 times a Canadian.

[Vanguard]

Repeating it doesn't make it mean anything. All goods and services in the US are also convertible to Euros at some fixed rate. And to US government debt. Units are units.

Tautology does not become meaningful simply because real definition is difficult.

[Drake Tungsten]

All goods and services in the US are also convertible to Euros at some fixed rate.

No they aren't, dumb****.

[KrazyHorse]

Your definition of money in the US being "usd" says nothing about this type of "money". All you are saying, when you boil it down, is "the units of exchange are the Units of Exchange. True. But meaningless.

No, ****. Deeply meaningful. This is the difference between money and assets.

Applying this directly to the forehead, I will say.... sure. Why not?

That is what Wall Street does after all. Treating assets as money is the whole basis of securitization. And the money that securitization generates is not printed in any mint. Due of leverage, 80% of it just comes into existence.

ROFLMAO.

No, that is not the basis of securitization. And securitization does not create money. What you appear to be referring to is fractional reserve banking. And once more, its basis is not the treatment of treasuries as money. ****.

How can somebody create 80% of the dollar value of some asset? Well, they can do that because they use that money to buy a securitized asset. The two are market equivalent So, yeah, equities are money, once they are securitized.

Right up to the point when the market ceases to function.

SECURITIZING EQUITIES????????



Equities ARE securities, you moron. They're the securitization of the future cashflows of the company.

[Kuciwalker]

Next he's going to tell you how to magnetize your electricity.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, I think he'll mightier your penis KH.

[Drake Tungsten]

A sensible column from Paul Krugman on the very real threat of a fiscal crisis due to excessive deficit spending...

A Fiscal Train Wreck

[MikeH]

What KrazyHorse said, plus just a tiny bit of extra reading once I knew what I was looking for makes all this very obvious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money (and it's various links and references)

Money originated as commodity money, but nearly all contemporary money systems are based on fiat money.[3] Fiat money is without intrinsuc use value as a physical commodity, and derives its value by being declared by a government to be legal tender; that is, it must be accepted as a form of payment within the boundaries of the country, for "all debts, public and private".

[DaShi]

A sensible column from Paul Krugman on the very real threat of a fiscal crisis due to excessive deficit spending...

A Fiscal Train Wreck

Indeed the war was a bad investment.

[Dinner]

A sensible column from Paul Krugman on the very real threat of a fiscal crisis due to excessive deficit spending...

A Fiscal Train Wreck

His points remain even though the article was written in 2003. Of course he'd probably say the financial situation now (meaning post crash) was very different then during the bubble years. In fact he's been pointing out those differences for years now.

[Kidlicious]

Everyone knows an American is worth 30 times a Canadian.

Only if you judge them by how much money you will lend to them.

[Kidlicious]

Calling all liquid assets money makes the term useless.

Current asset = cash and other liquid assets.

Stop bull****ting.

[KrazyHorse]

WTF are you on about, moron?