Is the Catholic church a force for good in the world?

[Ben Kenobi]

Speak for yourself.

All part of my discipline. At least I know some of what I do not know.

[Asher]

Pretty much spot on. Some of the more controversial questions arise over headship in a marital relationship. Christianity bears different burdens on wives and husbands, in accordance to their complementarity, and assigns men the role of headship and final decisionmaking.

This is sexist, whether you choose to admit it or not. Textbook.

[Asher]

Again, as aneeshm said, no one is forced to attend mass.

Countless children are.

[Ben Kenobi]

@Ben: I'm genuinely curious to know which religion you'll convert to when Catholicism starts to treat men and women as possessing equal value and ability. It's become apparent why you fled the Anglican church...

Good question. Me, I'm curious what will be running through your head on the day of Judgment.

Two answers, one, they'll bury me in the Church, or two, Christ will return. Pick whichever one you prefer.

[loinburger]

If you are going to quote me, get it right. I never said that all women are unfit to hold all forms of authority over men. This applies only to 'teaching authority' within the church. Get it right, please.

"My misogyny is of limited scope, screw you!"

You've hit on the why. Things work better if someone is in charge. Someone has to make the final decision. I suppose Loin is one of those who either defers, or how does it work, on alternate days? Please. I would love to hear your theories on what works best.

Spoken like somebody who has never been in a relationship. Why does a relationship need an a priori Boss as dictated by rules laid down two thousand years ago (or last week, for that matter)? Adults are capable of working these things out for themselves. Relationships are personal affairs, not something to be dictated by abstract theories.

I'd relate how the power dynamics worked in my relationships, but you don't really care, and rah would just call bull**** on me anyway. In summary, in my two medium-to-long-term relationships the two of us had the maturity needed to make decisions without trampling on each others' feelings or resorting to the use of an Authority Crown or however you imagine these things work. In my other relationships one or both of us did not have this maturity and so the relationships were short-lived - no quantity of biblical prophets could have saved those relationships.

Why is it a sexist preposition to say that men should make that decision? Nobody likes being the heavy.

[Ben Kenobi]

This is sexist, whether you choose to admit it or not. Textbook.

How so? Someone has to be the head.

Countless children are.

That's like saying parents are compelled to look after their children.

[loinburger]

Me, I'm curious what will be running through your head on the day of Judgment.

"Spare me, Ganesh!!!"

[aneeshm]

One point which I think needs to be made explicit is that:

a) What you can do/are good at,
b) What you want to do,
c) What you are happy doing, and
d) What is good for you

are, at least in theory, orthogonal. It is possible that for some person, all four are utterly different, even sometimes opposed.

The Church is concerned with the fourth. It is irrelevant whether women can be priests, or whether they want to be priests, or whether they are happy being priests. If it is the Church's conviction that it is not good for them (or others), the only moral option it has is the one it has taken today.

You are free to disagree - in which case, nobody is forcing you to join the Church or attend it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Spoken like somebody who has never been in a relationship.

Are you married Loin? This applies to marital relationships only.

Why does a relationship need an a priori Boss as dictated by rules laid down two thousand years ago (or last week, for that matter)? Adults are capable of working these things out for themselves. Relationships are personal affairs, not something to be dictated by abstract theories.

Decisions have to be made in a marriage. Ideally they would be mutually shared, but this does not always occur. What happens when there is a disagreement over what needs to be done? Who makes the final decision?

I'd relate how the power dynamics worked in my relationships,

I am curious, as it would better help me to understand where you are coming from. If you don't want to share because it's a rather personal question, that is fine, and I will not press for an answer.

In summary, in two of my medium-to-long-term relationships the two of us had the maturity needed to make decisions without trampling on each others' feelings or resorting to the use of an Authority Crown or however you imagine these things work.

Hmm, let me guess, she made the final decision and you went along? How did you resolve differences?

[Ben Kenobi]

If it is the Church's conviction that it is not good for them (or others), the only moral option it has is the one it has taken today.

It's not so much for them, as for what is best for the community?

[Asher]

Are you married Loin? This applies to marital relationships only.

Ben, no it doesn't. You are completely clueless to the concept of relationships in so many ways.

I've been with my partner for over six years, longer than many couples that are married. The marriage certificate doesn't mean **** in terms of relationship responsibilities.

A successful relationship is a partnership. The man should not make decisions and force the wife to follow. Those days are long gone.

[Ming]

Are you married Loin? This applies to marital relationships only.

Are you married Ben? What the hell do you know about marriage and successful relationships?

Decisions have to be made in a marriage. Ideally they would be mutually shared, but this does not always occur. What happens when there is a disagreement over what needs to be done? Who makes the final decision?

The person who is best suited to make the final decision. Sometimes, it's the husband, and sometimes it's the wife. Your assumption that it has to be the male simple because he is the male shows just how little you really know about true relationships. Maybe after you have experienced one, you will really understand. Until then, your opinons lack any basis of reality.

The fact that you think it HAS to be the male shows just what a sexist pig you really are.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, no it doesn't. You are completely clueless to the concept of relationships in so many ways.

Sigh.

The Christian concept of headship applies only to the MARITAL relationships between Christian couples.

For unbelievers, feel free to do whatever.

I've been with my partner for over six years, longer than many couples that are married. The marriage certificate doesn't mean **** in terms of relationship responsibilities.

Well, you are an unbeliever so of course the marriage means nothing to you.

A successful relationship is a partnership. The man should not make decisions and force the wife to follow. Those days are long gone.

Well sure. That's what freedom is about. You are free to live your life how you choose. Christians, however, have things they are supposed to follow.

[Asher]

Sigh.

The Christian concept of headship applies only to the MARITAL relationships between Christian couples.

For unbelievers, feel free to do whatever.

Your opinion is completely worthless here.

You are describing concept and theories with no practical experience. You've no idea how the real world works, how real relationships work. Get your nose out of the bible and wake up to reality.

You are describing an old-fashioned, sexist arrangement where the husband makes all the decision and the wife pops out babies with regularity and pretending like you need to follow that if you are a Christian. I'd dare say most Christians don't do that anymore.

There's tons of ape**** crazy **** in the bible you choose not to follow, as I'm sure you know.

[KrazyHorse]

at Ben explaining how successful relationships and marriages work.