"Don't Ask Don't Tell" and Obama Administration

[Jon Miller]

Is what you are trying to discuss, zaku, the whatif of gay marriage with homosexuals in the military so that a husband and a husband (or a wife and a wife) could be sharing the same barracks?

I am sure that there would be some procedure developed, after that occurs.

JM
(I didn't read all of his post, mostly just people responding to him.)

[KrazyHorse]

Jon, what we're laughing at is his claim that ending DADT = the military recognizing gay marriages

[Jon Miller]

Oh, no question that his claim is rediculous, I am just trying to understand what might have caused him to make his claim.

JM

[DinoDoc]

It's not like armies that permit openly gay enlistees have become a 24 hour Mardi Gras as a result.

How do they handle the situation?

[Patroklos]

Is what you are trying to discuss, zaku, the whatif of gay marriage with homosexuals in the military so that a husband and a husband (or a wife and a wife) could be sharing the same barracks?

In theory sharing the same barracks isn't a problem. Depending on rank and location some barracks are integrated, just not the actual rooms. If you are talking about bunking together in the same unit like a ship or fighting position immediate family members are not normally allowed to be assigned to the same unit anyway.

[Patroklos]

NM, no point in getting involved.

[KrazyHorse]

False. While it is true that married members automatically get BAH (which is BS, but I digress), married service members can find themselves in barracks for any number of reasons. They would not be able to share buildings in most cases or rooms in any case, but they could both end up in government quarters.

More importantly, the repeal of DADT is completely separate from the military recognizing gay marriages. In fact, current legislation (DOMA) would PREVENT the military from doing so, AFAIK.

[zakubandit]

Patro, it may be different in the Navy, but in the Army 2 married soldiers will never live in the same billets. If they are single, dating, then get married and both are in the same unit, same billets, they will be moved out upon signing up for the housing wait list, married soldiers cannot receive a BAH deposit if they live in the billets, which is paid for by the service at hand. 2 married soldiers usually cannot be in the same unit, but that has changed a lot and now can be in the same unit, but not same platoon or directly relating to one over the other's chain of command. Example of which was my wife's 1sg who married a PSG and the PSG had to move to another unit. Same with her section NCO who married a joe from their platoon, the joe moved to another platoon.

Government quarters is always vague, could be considered housing if it has not been privitized (Fort Irwin, Pinnacle for example). If you mean BAQ's or GO's or whatevers, then you mean married but separated. But married soldiers cannot collect BAH and live in billets, not in the Army at least. BAH is given to provide housing, if housing is granted by service to soldier in the form of billets then soldier forfeits BAH until out of billets.

[Lorizael]

I've removed the random personal attacks and the baiting. Play nice in this thread from now on.

[SpencerH]

I think the best 'tell' over whether openly gay soldiers will be accepted by their comrades will be how many are actually in the armed forces. If the numbers in service are relatively large, in the order of the 'mystical' 10% number that is bandied about for the general population, then I think forced 'sexual integration' of the armed forces will (eventually) be as succesful as it has been for racial integration. If, however, the number is relatively small then 'sexual integration' will almost certainly fail army combat units but may exist for non-combat units and in other services.

[rah]

They'll never be accepted by their comrades till enough come out of hiding it.
Most lack of acceptance is due to fear of the unknown. When I was young I didn't like blacks basically because I didn't know any. Once I got to know some that fear was gone. The same with gays. Once I finally realized that I knew some and the were really no different in many ways, that fear was gone. Sharing experiences with those different then you breaks down boundaries.

[zakubandit]

Rah, sorry to break it to you but sharing experiences doesn't apply on this thread.

The average number of gays per service also broken down by branch is drastically different. Now of course it is never easy to know if a guy/girl is gay or not and obviously, duh, we can't ask them. But if we notice that they are gay, usually by one person or the other just seeing something happen and a one on one understanding to keep quiet, then it matters little about how many now or later. Generally speaking only the tight asses, deep seeded racism/homophobia, and older generations are the ones to push the issue if it is found out. Generally speaking it is accepted if someone is gay. BUT BUT BUT, just because it is quietly accepted does not mean that it would be openly accepted. Now 9 times out of 10 soldiers don't realize if someone is gay or not, we all usually have a pretty deep private life, for the most, so that occurrence of knowing someone is gay can only be vaguely stated for maybe 5% of every battalion sized unit. In Korea, knew absolutely no gays, and I was in an all male post and an all male unit (1st and 2nd year respectively). At my last unit there was a large female population so of course you notice things a lot differently. On an all male post everyone was a guy and if you noticed anything...not guy like it stood out like a sore thumb, and obviously for a gay on an all male post it wouldn't be dream land, more like hell....combat units are not openly cool with gays. It is just like highschool 10 years ago.....

Billy is a jock, football player, dates the hottest girl in school....Billy is gay, but he is so afraid to come out because of what people will say, do, think...etc. Now Billy grows up and its ok to be gay, but he still plays football and hangs with the guys as one of the guys...now what does he do. He is afraid to come out, but its openly ok....not a simple thing to do all the time. Billy would have to suffer what happens to his team and coach, his friends....your basic coming out but with a military spin that involves life, death, and war.

[rah]

Rah, sorry to break it to you but sharing experiences doesn't apply on this thread.

Reread my post and then your own rebuttal. You say it doesn't apply because most people don't know who's gay. DUH. THAT"S MY POINT. The armed forces has always been the great equalizer when breaking down social barriers over the long run. (emphasis long run) Rich/poor, white/black, and eventually sexual preference. But it can't break them down if they're not recognizable. I've always been a proponent of mandatory military service. One reason was for making sure that politicians kids would be put in harms way so they might think a bit longer before using a military option and for forcing young men/women to socialize with those different from them. I think it would go far in minimizing some of the prejudices in the country. And no it wouldn't be the cure all because there would still be a lot of ignorant asses, but it would help a lot.

And it is possible to disagree with you without disrespecting everyone else that served in the armed forces. Especially since your opinions are considerably different than almost everyone else that I know that has served.

[DaShi]

Rah, sorry to break it to you but sharing experiences doesn't apply on this thread.

The average number of gays per service also broken down by branch is drastically different. Now of course it is never easy to know if a guy/girl is gay or not and obviously, duh, we can't ask them. But if we notice that they are gay, usually by one person or the other just seeing something happen and a one on one understanding to keep quiet, then it matters little about how many now or later. Generally speaking only the tight asses, deep seeded racism/homophobia, and older generations are the ones to push the issue if it is found out. Generally speaking it is accepted if someone is gay. BUT BUT BUT, just because it is quietly accepted does not mean that it would be openly accepted. Now 9 times out of 10 soldiers don't realize if someone is gay or not, we all usually have a pretty deep private life, for the most, so that occurrence of knowing someone is gay can only be vaguely stated for maybe 5% of every battalion sized unit. In Korea, knew absolutely no gays, and I was in an all male post and an all male unit (1st and 2nd year respectively). At my last unit there was a large female population so of course you notice things a lot differently. On an all male post everyone was a guy and if you noticed anything...not guy like it stood out like a sore thumb, and obviously for a gay on an all male post it wouldn't be dream land, more like hell....combat units are not openly cool with gays. It is just like highschool 10 years ago.....

Billy is a jock, football player, dates the hottest girl in school....Billy is gay, but he is so afraid to come out because of what people will say, do, think...etc. Now Billy grows up and its ok to be gay, but he still plays football and hangs with the guys as one of the guys...now what does he do. He is afraid to come out, but its openly ok....not a simple thing to do all the time. Billy would have to suffer what happens to his team and coach, his friends....your basic coming out but with a military spin that involves life, death, and war.

China is gonna **** us over if everyone in our military is as much of a pansy zaku.

[Patroklos]

I've always been a proponent of mandatory military service. One reason was for making sure that politicians kids would be put in harms way so they might think a bit longer before using a military option and for forcing young men/women to socialize with those different from them.

The rich are over represented in our current military.