"Don't Ask Don't Tell" and Obama Administration

[zakubandit]

Oh yey, I came back and I get patronized...what a change from before.

[loinburger]

You civilians just don't understand, but try to imagine you live in a house and the government tells you to live with someone who you are not ok with living with.

Yeah, racial integration was a huge mistake

[DaShi]

Wow you civis are ****ing stupid. Fraternization is not the issue. Right now frat happens with people who it is not supposed to, gay sex happens, blah blah blah. Right NOW if a gay guy is caught it is a big deal, but in a reform of the regs would cause discontent with a large number of straights due to the commonality that not all straights are ok with gays. You allow a gay guy to room with a straight guy, command does not ask the straight guy if he is ok with it...they will order him to be. That causes discontent, morale loss, eventually the straight soldier might not retain. Loss of soldiers.

You civilians just don't understand, but try to imagine you live in a house and the government tells you to live with someone who you are not ok with living with. Imagine the rough course you will have to run. Imagine perhaps you are a religious person and they make you board with a satanist or a scientologist who practices and will practice in the house. Will you be ok with that? Probably not because Americans are not very well known for tolerance when it hits their personal space (only ok with the world at large's differences).

I didn't realize that so many US soldiers were whiny pussies. I've had it tougher than them.

[Patroklos]

Who cares if there is fraternization among them? I don't give a rat's ass what they do on their own time. Maybe I'm behind the times. Women and men used to have separate barracks. Do they still? This is a 3rd situation.

Yes, they do. In cases like ships they all have seperate berthings/staterooms. Gays and straights and gays and gays should all be seperated for the exact same reasons. If you disagree with this while still advocating any seperation between males and females (anywhere) you are a hypocrite.

[chequita guevara]

Let's be clear. You think it's ok for someone to lobby for someone else's entry into the service, while having no intention of enlisting? As contrasted to keeping your mouth shut and letting those that want to enlist lobby for it?

Hell, that figures.

Yeah, standing up for other people's rights is so wrong.

[zakubandit]

Thank you Patro.

DaShi, bite your mother ****ing tongue. You have no ****ing idea. You have it harder than soldiers, do you really want to go down that road?

The fact of the matter when it came to racial integration was that there were already other races and they had to deal with racism right in their faces. They couldn't hide like gays can right now. It took a long time, and it still hasnt completely gone away, for everyone to be ok living and working with other races. For example, when I was in Korea I had gotten a roommate temporarily (I had an NCO room so he was just in the bedroom next door, shared bathroom) his name was Mohammad, he was from Trinidad.

Now Mohammad was a small, dark skinned Muslim. He was not a bright guy, actually he was really stupid, almost ran my friend over with the tank because Mohammad did not pay attention to the hand signals he was receiving. We had a sensing session once, well it was a harassment and sexism class that shifted to sensing session, and Mohammad blew up on us. And by us I mean the entire company. He claimed that we all treated him poorly, that we called him a terrorist, that we gave him **** about everything, then he went and pointed out that it was the whites and hispanics that specifically were making him feel like ****, but that the 2 blacks from the Carib were cool and the other blacks just ignored him (mind you our CO, XO, 4 PLs and 4 PSGs were ALL black....an awkward coincidence). Fact was though that we didn't treat him any less than any other stupid private. We had a dangerous job and retardation on the job gets people killed, or their feet smashed by a 62 ton track vehicle, or shot, or a .50 cal blows up in their face (ala Mohammad's tank commander). Now there were some people who did call him terrorist names or so on and so forth, but realisitcally....it was ripe in the war, it was hard for everyone to just let go of 9-11 or the war and working with a Muslim while we were getting killed by them in the mid-east (as wrong as it) is it's a feeling that is not just able to be pushed away.

Gays, well they can hide. Is it right, no, but is it right to take the military of 50 states and territories and force them to accept a sexual and life preference that is not allowed in most states?

Again, unless you served you don't get the full perspective. No matter how hard you try to debate it, force it, push it, whatever...you will not understand completely what I am getting at. I am all for it by the way, I think its a good idea to reform DADT but in a realistic manner....after all 50 states have marriage rights for gays I say drop DADT immediately. And before anyone tries saying i'm anti-gay or whatever, I voted FOR prop 8 in CA to allow gay marriages.

[DaShi]

*****. Afraid of gays!

[KrazyHorse]

Gays, well they can hide. Is it right, no, but is it right to take the military of 50 states and territories and force them to accept a sexual and life preference that is not allowed in most states?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_law#United_States

[KrazyHorse]

I like DaShi's take on this.

[loinburger]

What the hell does gay marriage have to do with DADT?

[KrazyHorse]

Who can understand the thought processes of zakudl?

[Patroklos]

Thank you Patro.

My position is not the same as yours. I fully support allowing homosexuals to serve and think all reasonable efforts to fully integrate them should be explored just like we did for women.

We just this month approved the concept of modifying our larger submarines and all new classes to accomadate women, they are designing the retrofits for the Ohios now. The biggest hurdle as far as timeframe is not the accomdations, however, but rather ensuring there is the proper strata of female rationgs/officers to silmultaneously integrate all levels of command. You don't want to throw a bunch of female recruits and JOs into an isolated enviroment without any senior female mentors.

[zakubandit]

Patro I know what your talking about, some of it at least, a friend of mine on the Eisenhower was telling me about it about a week ago.

I am for integration, but the fact that civilians demand it of the military without understanding the ramifications is asinine.

I even said you guys understand, and you state yourselves you dont understand.

Loin, you allow gays into the military openly that means you allow gay unions. Meaning that the military will therefore have to allow for a gay couple, legally married in a state (though stationed probably in a state not approving marriages) so they will be allowed to have housing benefits and medical benefits. The ramification is an open door for fraud. Once DADT nulls and gays openly serve there has to be a protocol for allowing housing, when you have straight couple its easy (man woman) but fraud does happen (contract marriages, soldier marries girl she gets medical he gets house and more money). If you read before I gave the example of what could happen. And it would be made illegal to question if 2 men are gay together or to prove it (Chuck and Larry), opening a door for all sorts of trouble.

Then the billets/barracks, combat arms. Like I said, if you allow gay men into combat arms why not straight and lesbian women? I know a few feminist women who want to be combat arms, they call sexism that men are allowed to fight and women arent. Hell I know some women soldiers who would/have kicked ass in combat situations. So is it ok to allow gays but not women to enlist in combat arms jobs?

I can say it over and over, unless you have served you don't know. And even by Oerdin, he has served and is still retarded....but thats Army intel for ya.

[loinburger]

Loin, you allow gays into the military openly that means you allow gay unions.

You're insane.

[KrazyHorse]

Loin, you allow gays into the military openly that means you allow gay unions.

No.