[serious] Off Topic Moderation Input - Part 2

[Asher]

It's a sensitive issue for a lot of people. There's a lot of personal history there.

I don't think people understand how much Ben's simple opinions infuriate and enrage some people. It's a constant reminder of how stupid and evil people in this world really are. It's not something I want to see every day. When it's posted, it's not something I can ignore. I've tried.

[OzzyKP]

So the heterosexual white male has no problems with racists or homophobes so long as it's not inciting murder. Noted.

Hopefully other people are brighter than you are and recognize the tension such people can bring to the site. And such tension is never beneficial. Never.

Don't mischaracterize what I said. I didn't say I'd be ok with it or have no problems with it. I'd strenuously disagree, but if everyone I disagreed with were banned this would be a very empty forum.

[DRoseDARs]

I certainly took exception to Ben's assertion that all gays are HIV positive (or at least a massive risk for it, even when they are celibate), and that DRose was intentionally trying to harm people by donating blood as a high school student.

I don't think he was ever banned.

I was so pissed by what he posted I actually succeeded in putting that thread out of my mind until now. I didn't want to post something in that thread further that I'd later regret. "Mother. Fvcker." seemed sufficient enough to convey my feelings succinctly at the time.

I don't like putting people on Ignore because it takes a lot to truly offend/anger me but damn Ben came close. I've never done drugs, never traveled to third world countries (well, besides Texas and Florida, and came to within a ferry ride across the sound to Victoria BC last weekend), never received blood and the kicker here is (and Lord knows I'm going to regret saying this, buttf*ck it..) I'm still technically a virgin too. Yes Mr. President, that includes oral, hand, and cigars in coslopuses. Ben is more of a Typhoid Mary than me. I'm sure he's been the recipient of a pity f*ck or two. Probably didn't charge him their usual rate either, they felt so bad for him being such an insufferable, hate-filled bore. And hatred really IS a communicable mental disease as well, so I imagine full-body condoms were involved.

As for being a virgin, I'm saving myself for that one special, underage Catholic choir boy. Though, seeing as they've all seemingly been spoken for or otherwise deflowered, I suspect I'm going to die a virgin.
[/For God's sake, EcoFarm, that was a joke. Get a grip.]

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

It's a sensitive issue for a lot of people. There's a lot of personal history there.

I don't think people understand how much Ben's simple opinions infuriate and enrage some people. It's a constant reminder of how stupid and evil people in this world really are. It's not something I want to see every day. When it's posted, it's not something I can ignore. I've tried.

Understandable. I sympathize to an extent seeing the first hand effects of this at my church of those folks who are out of the closet and asking for support in their daily lives of the tribulations they face with non accepting family members, "friends", and society at large.

On the other hand, being exposed day in day out to that has likely left me a bit callous, as my only thought is why is this person seemingly only defined by their sexuality. I want to relate on a more common basis on something other than their sexuality and find the inside jokes and banter tiresome and truth be told a bit devisive.

Sorry for the perceived or actual insensitivity in any event.

[ZEE]

hey guise, lets all try to follow rule 4b on this page

[Maniac]

If we used that standard, i.e. "can't express opposition to a culture, group, belief, or life style" then everyone who bashes religion or says bigoted things about religion would also be banned.

The difference is gay hatred and racism has no scientific basis, while calling religious people mentally handicapped has.

[Asher]

Understandable. I sympathize to an extent seeing the first hand effects of this at my church of those folks who are out of the closet and asking for support in their daily lives of the tribulations they face with non accepting family members, "friends", and society at large.

On the other hand, being exposed day in day out to that has likely left me a bit callous, as my only thought is why is this person seemingly only defined by their sexuality. I want to relate on a more common basis on something other than their sexuality and find the inside jokes and banter tiresome and truth be told a bit devisive.

Sorry for the perceived or actual insensitivity in any event.

To be clear, I don't think I've ever taken issue or noticed any insensitivity from you on the issue.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

To be clear, I don't think I've ever taken issue or noticed any insensitivity from you on the issue.

None ever intended regardless.

[BeBMan]

As a Kraut I'm always in favour of bans. I'm putting a list together consisting of people that can be permabanned.

Of course there's always the danger that - without anyone who unites the forum against himself and creates public outrage - we would have to turn against eachother, so this should be carefully orchestrated

[Wezil]

We want to ban them BeBro, not exterminate them.

We'll call you when you're needed.

[Robert]

I've done this many times and have received NOT ONE response for explanation about why his hate-mongering slander and bigotry is okay, when it is in clear violation of a number of site rules.

Shape up, Plomp. I'm getting seriously annoyed and now that I'm about to have a lot more free time I'm considering making my own Civ5 site. Rest assured it'll blow the **** out of this one.

I believe that I have judged everybody alike.
I am sure that I have failed at that as well. Please point me to the posts where I (or other mods) have failed to judge correctly.

as far I as know has Ben never posted a deadwish of an individual member, which was the reason for this ban.

I'm still not cool with you over the fact that you solicited my help, we started planning things, then you started ignoring me.

You are right that I did not handle that good at all.
I was very honest about needing your help. We weren't able to create the environment where you could do it. Later we decided to move to a total new environment. But I have never explained this to you, nor have I kept you up to date. I will contact you in private again.

I am sorry.

You have a LOT to learn, and you're not learning or acting fast enough. Your defense of Ben here is just making things worse. The fact that you've banned people for essentially doing what Ben does 24/7 is simply outrageous.

I have a lot to learn, but here I am right.
There's a difference between what Ben does and what you guys do. You all are getting very emotional and in this case a ban was needed because I can't tolerate death wishes in any form. Ben is very clinical in his posts and apparently knows very well what to post and what not to post.

I can also state that I, and all mods, are defenitely not biased towards Ben. He will be punished when he crosses the line.
If I would act as a christian, I would already have banned him from Apolyton for unlimited time because I believe that he's spreading a wrong image of christianity and that worries me a lot.
But I'm an admin, and as an admin I stand up for the rights of every individual to express his opinion within the rules, no matter what his opinion is. As long as it's within the rules.

Once again, please point me to a post which in your opinion crosses the line and I will take action if you're right.

[Robert]

I don't think people understand how much Ben's simple opinions infuriate and enrage some people. It's a constant reminder of how stupid and evil people in this world really are. It's not something I want to see every day. When it's posted, it's not something I can ignore. I've tried.

I have never banned you for anything you said. And I completely understand where you come from. I have also stand up for you, when I told Ben that he is violating your core being and questioning your deepest personality. I hope you have read that as well. And I am serious about that.

And you are provoking Ben all the time with your threads. You seek the debate all the time yourself. And that's fine, apolyton is a place where all kinds of debates can happen. Are you glad that apolyton is like that, or do you only want to provoke others while others can't provoke you?

[Asher]

I reported the thread containing the post about gays donating blood where Ben personally attacked DRose by implying he intentionally lied to give his tainted, gay blood during a blood drive. It was highly offensive, directly implying the blood of gays is inherently unworthy.

Nothing happened for it. I'm not going to search for it, because I did report it properly the first time.

It was not a death threat, but it need not be to be disgusting, vile, and inappropriate for the site.

[giblets]

I reported the thread containing the post about gays donating blood where Ben personally attacked DRose by implying he intentionally lied to give his tainted, gay blood during a blood drive. It was highly offensive, directly implying the blood of gays is inherently unworthy.

I guess Robert Plomp believes Ben when he claims it's no different from telling people they shouldn't smoke.

[Robert]

You can't be bothered to search for it, don't expect me to do it. (while the wording is important here!)

Anyway, I get the impression that you believe that Ben considers gay-blood unworthy in itself. That would be indeed a violation of the rules.

But I get the impression that Ben just believes that gays have a higher risk for infected blood. That's not an uncommon point of view. Our laws had, at least untill not that long ago, perhaps still today, an exclusion for gay blood donors as well for the same reasons.

To me it does not look worse then any of the many vile comments you guys made towards Ben. Of course we can always lower the tolerance of the Off Topic Forum.

But Asher, one honest question, are you really offended and shocked by the stuff Ben says, or is this one big game for you?