How the Soviets Really Won WWII :)

[Drake Tungsten]

By Zhukov. I think he can be viewed as an authority on the matter.

[chequita guevara]

So does that mean Eisenhower was right about not needing to use the bomb on Japan? Consider the Zhukov may have been making nice with his wartime allies.

[Kuciwalker]

Of course he was right about not needing to use the bomb on Japan.

[BlackCat]

That's quite the joker.

Also, what's to stop the Germans from annexing Vichy and French North Africa, and then shelling Gibralter to dust?

Your answer should be south of 'not much.'

Actually, it's a bit worse - wether it's from Vichy or FNA, the germans haven't fighters that can protect their bombers.

Vichy based bombers would probably be Condors, but even they were vulnerable without escort. FNA have the same problem.

Only reliable solution would be to go into Spanish Morocco, and I suspect that it's only Ned that would think that if the Spaniards allowed that, it wouldn't be a declaration of war.

Even if the british isles had fallen, but the british empire continued to fight, I seriously doubt that Franco would have attacked Gibraltar. Much can be said about Franco, but he wasn't a political looney as Hitler and Mussolini.

Another point is that Gibraltar is a bit farther away from africa than most arty can handle - though, the germans had a couple of guns that could have done it :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav

[Drake Tungsten]

Even if the british isles had fallen, but the british empire continued to fight, I seriously doubt that Franco would have attacked Gibraltar. Much can be said about Franco, but he wasn't a political looney as Hitler and Mussolini.

This is absolutely retarded. Franco would have to be an idiot not to try and take Gibraltar back for Spain after the British Isles had been conquered by Germany.

[BlackCat]

Even if the british isles had fallen, but the british empire continued to fight, I seriously doubt that Franco would have attacked Gibraltar. Much can be said about Franco, but he wasn't a political looney as Hitler and Mussolini.

This is absolutely retarded. Franco would have to be an idiot not to try and take Gibraltar back for Spain after the British Isles had been conquered by Germany.

Well, Hitler or Musse, would certainly have bitten, but I seriously doubt Franco would. That would have been declaration of war on side with germany and italy. Spain was in a serious mess after the civil war, so while they probably could have taken Gibraltar, it wouldn't have been wise. That would actually make a "soft belly" for any kind of invasion.

[BlackCat]

TBH, I don't think that even our pet commie, Che, would think he would do such a stupid move

[notyoueither]

Actually, it's a bit worse - wether it's from Vichy or FNA, the germans haven't fighters that can protect their bombers.

Vichy based bombers would probably be Condors, but even they were vulnerable without escort. FNA have the same problem.

Only reliable solution would be to go into Spanish Morocco, and I suspect that it's only Ned that would think that if the Spaniards allowed that, it wouldn't be a declaration of war.

Even if the british isles had fallen, but the british empire continued to fight, I seriously doubt that Franco would have attacked Gibraltar. Much can be said about Franco, but he wasn't a political looney as Hitler and Mussolini.

Another point is that Gibraltar is a bit farther away from africa than most arty can handle - though, the germans had a couple of guns that could have done it :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav

I was thinking the Nazis would either 'borrow' Spanish Morocco, or get Franco to join in for his slice of the pie. After all, Britain wouldn't have been much of a threat to Spain at that point.

The sorts of guns that could fire across the straights would not have needed to be plentiful. They would have had as long as needed to reduce the area to rubble.

[notyoueither]

TBH, I don't think that even our pet commie, Che, would think he would do such a stupid move

It would have been stupid for Franco not to be friendly to the Nazis with Britain occupied.

[BlackCat]

It would have been stupid for Franco not to be friendly to the Nazis with Britain occupied.

Yeah, friendly, but not nessecarily an ally. Franco wasn't a waco that wanted to build a "Espanol Grande" or like.

[chequita guevara]

TBH, I don't think that even our pet commie, Che, would think he would do such a stupid move

In the event of the fall of the British Isles, I doubt anyone would consider taking Gibraltar a stupid move on Franco's part. Only a powerful British Empire can hope to defend it, and a Britain under German occupation doesn't meet the definition of powerful.

Hell, a Mosely government might just turn Gibraltar over, ala French Indochina to Japan.

[BlackCat]

I was thinking the Nazis would either 'borrow' Spanish Morocco, or get Franco to join in for his slice of the pie. After all, Britain wouldn't have been much of a threat to Spain at that point.

The sorts of guns that could fire across the straights would not have needed to be plentiful. They would have had as long as needed to reduce the area to rubble.

Still that would demand Franco to take side.

Another thing is that if it should be done from the african side, it would be at the longest range of the guns I linked to - another thing - well, they were in soviet, so it would take some time to deploy them. Further, theu would be very voulnerable to RN bombardment and air strikes.

[KrazyHorse]

In the event of the fall of the British Isles, I doubt anyone would consider taking Gibraltar a stupid move on Franco's part. Only a powerful British Empire can hope to defend it, and a Britain under German occupation doesn't meet the definition of powerful.

Che, the mighty forces of Canada and South Africa would have defended Gibraltar against all of Europe and North Africa. Don't you get it?

[BlackCat]

In the event of the fall of the British Isles, I doubt anyone would consider taking Gibraltar a stupid move on Franco's part. Only a powerful British Empire can hope to defend it, and a Britain under German occupation doesn't meet the definition of powerful.

Hell, a Mosely government might just turn Gibraltar over, ala French Indochina to Japan.

Traitor

What I meant was a british empire still fighting. Though, it could certainly be a chip for bargain - spain stay out of the conflict and when it's over, gibraltar becomes spain.

[BlackCat]

Che, the mighty forces of Canada and South Africa would have defended Gibraltar against all of Europe and North Africa. Don't you get it?

Oh, KH, you have got the trunk out ? Hope you liked it

Usually, you are quite brigth, but if you can't see the difference in supporting the british isles and gibraltar, then I'm a bit worried