Lord, liar, lunatic, legend?

[BlackCat]

I thought that Rah had made that point clear.

[Ben Kenobi]

Just because they don't want to belong to a religion doesn't mean they don't want to belong to a group... they'll just find another group to join.

I was referring just to groups as religious groups, not other groups. I was not very clear in my earlier post.

[Ben Kenobi]

The West does NOT equal the world. We are not the norm religiously.

I'll concede this point, I didn't think Jon was referring to everyone rather then just the west. If he was, then my apologies.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I was referring just to groups as religious groups, not other groups. I was not very clear in my earlier post.

Fair enough, but I think that even those who are nominally Christian seem to indicate they want to belong to a group, even if they don't agree entirely with the group's philosophies.

[Ben Kenobi]

Doesn't that indicate they WANT to belong to a group... even if they don't agree with the group?

It means they elevate their own interpretation and desire individuality over what they see as conformity in rejecting what the group as a whole believes.

If you are sincerely a Catholic and want to be a Catholic, then you stick with what the church teaches rather then being a maverick. As I said most prefer to go where they want to go.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But seeing as they call themselves a member of said group, doesn't that indicate they value being part of it, even nominally? Why else don't they just say, I'm a Christian and be done with it?

[Ben Kenobi]

For starters, the golden age of modernism is post 1914.

You mean the art deco period from 1920-1936?

You have a point. Art deco is modernism.

However, the ideas of post-modernism I would argue begin with Spengler's decline and fall of the west which was published in 1917, but not well received until the second world war.

I would also argue that the first world war drastically changed things and really was the death of modernism.

[Ben Kenobi]

But seeing as they call themselves a member of said group, doesn't that indicate they value being part of it, even nominally? Why else don't they just say, I'm a Christian and be done with it?

That's a good question. I would argue it's because they believe that the group should conform to them rather then the other way around.

[Ben Kenobi]

I fully believe in the ends of religion, but not the structure in which they are maintained.

Again, this is a common complaint. Love the ideas and hate the structure. My take on this is that the structure is there for a reason. I would argue people crave structure and organisation and that part of the reason why these ideas have persisted for so long is how they are organised and the structure behind them.

The second part is that I would argue at least in Christianity, fellowship with other believers on a regular basis is essential.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Did I just see CivNation online?

that would be legendary

[Imran Siddiqui]

That's a good question. I would argue it's because they believe that the group should conform to them rather then the other way around.

I don't think that's why most call themselves members of the Church. They usually aren't that adamant about their views and don't try to impress them on other members of that church.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

20 of which are DL's

make that 30, which leaves just the 3 of us Lord Ming, Legend Che and the Sweet Sauce Asher

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't think that's why most call themselves members of the Church. They usually aren't that adamant about their views and don't try to impress them on other members of that church.

Really? I've met plenty who were very adamant. Including one fellow who was confirmed with me. Wanted to see the church dump all the stuff he didn't like.

I was, dude, wtf? Why are you here?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

On the other hand, there are those christians who have no clue what tolerance or love of others really means... They think they are Christians, but in reality, they are walking advertisements for everything that is wrong with organized religions.

and they are usually the leaders which really keeps all that organized religion stuff a rather bitter environment...

[OneFootInTheGrave]

IIRC about 15% of the world identifies as non-religious. Either most people want to belong to a religion or there's an awful lot of coercion going on.

a combination of tradition, coercion and personal experience... on the other hand if you look at white British population in UK I doubt that more than 15% identifies as religious.