Lord, liar, lunatic, legend?

[BlackCat]

We can only go on the manuscript evidence we do have, not on what might have been there. It's a simple argument, the more copies, the more we can be sure that the copy is accurate to the original. The fewer copies, the less we can be sure that the copies we possess are accurate to the original, and the less reliable the documentary evidence.

This is why archaeology is so important. If we were to find one original dating back to 100 AD, that would double the total. I don't think you realise how fortunate we are to get anything passed down from more then a thousand years ago of anything, let alone scripture.

But we don't have any original scriptures when it comes to christianity - they are copies of copies wich has been changed according to those in rule at the moment.

Egypt gods, on the contrary, we have written proof of their existence litterally chiseled in stone.

Which documents do you refer to?

Are you talking about the OT or the NT Canon?

[Japher]

That's all I can ask. It's when people push their faiths as truths is when I have a problem.
If you tell me you believe Jesus was the son of God, fine. But if you tell me it's proven that he was, I'll just laugh because there is no proof. (But I'll concede that there is no proof that he wasn't)

Agreed. The proof is testimony, or as we call it in today's courts hearsay. Further proof comes from continual acts of the holy spirit, mostly through personal events and more testimony. Of course, you have to believe to accept it. If you don't, then that's your loss. Don't call me a religious nutter because of what I have seen and how I have rationalized it, and I won't call you a skeptic who can't face the truth when it's staring you in the face.

[Ben Kenobi]

But we don't have any original scriptures when it comes to christianity - they are copies of copies wich has been changed according to those in rule at the moment.

We have a manuscript of part of it from the 2nd century which is almost the same as what we have today.

Egypt gods, on the contrary, we have written proof of their existence litterally chiseled in stone.

So you consider monuments to the gods as proof of their existance? What then is the Church of the holy sepulchre?

[BlackCat]

So you consider monuments to the gods as proof of their existance? What then is the Church of the holy sepulchre?

No, I meant the scriptures chiseled into the walls Are you saying they lied when they made that ?

[Ben Kenobi]

No, I meant the scriptures chiseled into the walls Are you saying they lied when they made that ?

Which inscriptions are you referring to?

[loinburger]

The Eddas trump Ra any day of the week.







Were the Norse lying about Ymir and Odin?????

[BlackCat]

Which inscriptions are you referring to?

Go to your nearest local egyptian pyramid.

Edit: forgot that pyramids has been builld outside egypt.

[Ben Kenobi]

Go to your nearest local egyptian pyramid.

That puts us when, 3rd, 4th dynasty?

Egyptian beliefs are far older then the 3rd dynasty.

[loinburger]

What's your point?

[BlackCat]

That puts us when, 3rd, 4th dynasty?

Egyptian beliefs are far older then the 3rd dynasty.

Who cares - there are written proof of the egyptian gods, and more important - the evidence hasn't been distorted through time.

These scriptures proves without any doubt that the egyptian gods is in fact real and that we should worship them as the true gods.

[Straybow]

Lord.

So if you see no reason someone would have to steal his body, it makes perfect sense that instead something utterly magical, incredible and unreasonable occurred. Something that didn't happen before and never occurred since. All because you're not creative enough to seek an ulterior motive.

Let's consider this example:
My dad showed me a coin trick. I see no reason he would lie to me (I'm his son!) so he must posses real magical powers. QED.

Nope, nobody is going to flog or kill dear ol' Dad for making a coin appear from behind your ear.

Stealing Jesus' body would have required complicity with all 16 guards (the quaternion, four watches of four men). If any guards are not complicit they will fight the traitors and the Jews trying to steal the body. With blood shed and rebel bodies to parade there is no viable claim of a "miracle" even if they can dump the body somewhere never to be found. The (remaining) guards report the incident and pursue the bodysnatchers with brutal thoroughness (who cares if a few extra Jews die to root out the problem). The whole plot falls apart with the disciples dead, imprisoned, or scattered.

So you believe the preposterous notion that the Romans managed to populate the entire unit of soldiers chosen to guard the tomb with the few converts who were willing to die for their newfound beliefs. What's more, those soldiers would know that what they're believing is a lie they've been asked to help create, and they're still willing to die for it.

Sorry, that's an "antimiracle" more difficult to support than the miracle it's supposed to refute.

[SlowwHand]

I still don't understand atheists being eaten up with wanting to talk religion.
The only thing that I can assume is that many atheists, besides being ignorant, are asshats.

[Dis]

when I complete my time machine, I'll go back and find out for sure.

P.S. I plan to kill Hitler too.

[loinburger]

I still don't understand atheists being eaten up with wanting to talk religion.
The only thing that I can assume is that many atheists, besides being ignorant, are asshats.

I don't believe in Christian myths and I don't believe in Greek myths and the list goes on, but I still find the subject to be interesting. I also interact with real-life Christians on a fairly regular basis (and Jews/Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists/Sikhs on a less frequent basis) so it's helpful to know a bit about e.g. their moral codes so we don't get on each others' nerves (or alternatively if somebody online e.g. tells me that I'm going to hell then it prepares me to meet people with a similar attitude in real life). But I didn't start this to be another thread in which Ben (or CivNation or any of the other usual suspects) can show how dogmatic he is, which is why I attempted to discourage him. Fat lot of good that did.

What I don't understand is why people open threads they know they won't like just to **** all over them. It doesn't take a tremendous act of willpower to just not post. "Oh boy a religion thread started by an atheist, time for some hit-and-run thread****ting!"

Now if this wasn't a hit-and-run but was instead the start of a more protracted thread****, the next most likely post will be "hoo boy looks like I touched a nerve there hyuck hyuck!" It really isn't necessary that you make this post, I've just made it for you.

[Ben Kenobi]

Who cares - there are written proof of the egyptian gods, and more important - the evidence hasn't been distorted through time.

It's written in heiroglyphics. The only thing we have to translate heiroglyphics is the Rosetta stone, which is dated to about the 2nd century BC. That's 20 centuries of evolution in the language. How do we know how the egyptian language has changed in that time?

Then you have the attendent translations from the Greek to English.

These scriptures proves without any doubt that the egyptian gods is in fact real and that we should worship them as the true gods.

How do we know it's an accurate account of events that happened several thousand years before they were recorded in stone?