The American "Healthcare" thread

[Jon Miller]

Point 3. Better than US. BAM but nothing shown in these thread has been in any way provable of better foreign health care. Stats about life expectancy have always been skewed by other factors that have little to do with quality of health care provided such as higher auto accident rates, obesity rates, etc. In fact one can make arguements that availability to better health care procedures in infant care can make for delivery of many under weight children (that unfortunately have unavoidable high mortality rates) that get counted in the mortality statistics that would never go full term and hence don't show up in mortality statistics of other nations.

I would argue that obesity rates is one of the prime things that relate to quality health care being provided.

The obesity rates in the US is just rediculous.

JM

[Ramo]

A study by McKinsey tried to quantify the differences between US health care spending and the rest of the developed world. Basically lifestyle factors are a marginal component of the difference. And we may have our obesity, but we also drink less alcohol and smoke less tobacco than the Euros.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Obesity is a choice issue/life style issue, not a quality of health care issue.

[Ramo]

And I'll emphasize that the difference between us and the rest of the world isn't in terms of outcomes (we're probably lower, but the difference is marginal), but in costs. We spend drastically more than anyone else in the health sector (and differences in subsidies for doctor training are pretty small compared to the spending gap), and get very little value for the money.

[Arrian]

The Healthy Americans Act... is that the Wyden-Bennett bill? Yeah, it does sound pretty good and it's being ignored. Boo.

Hell, I'll shoot my rep an email about it. Worth a few minutes of my time.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

Google is my friend. So it is Wyden-Bennett. I see they have this Obama response to the bill:

In a July 1, 2009 interview, Obama said he agreed with "with '90 percent' of Wyden's thinking" but called HAA "radical"; according to The Oregonian:[11]

The president said his discussions with Wyden are similar to those with people who advocate a single-payer system. In theory, those plans work, he said. "The problem is, we have evolved partly by accident into an employer-based system." A "radical restructuring" would meet "significant political resistance," Obama said, and "families who are currently relatively satisfied with their insurance but are worried about rising costs ... would get real nervous about a wholesale change."

I see what he's saying, but I disagree. If this is the better bill (one with some bipartisan support already, no less), sell it. Instead of, say, trying to sell a Rube Goldberg machine.

-Arrian

[DaShi]

It's kind of ironic given that Obama is still . . . holy ****, firefox has proofreading now. And it doesn't even recognize firefox. Wait, Firefox. Ah, anal.

[Arrian]

What?

[Drake Tungsten]

If this is the better bill (one with some bipartisan support already, no less), sell it. Instead of, say, trying to sell a Rube Goldberg machine.

The Democrats won't support any bill that doesn't include a public option. Too many of the Democrats on the left are dead-set on single payer and won't support a healthcare reform bill that doesn't help them get there.

[Arrian]

Is Wyden-Bennett necessarily incompatible with a public insurance plan?

[hope this is not a really stupid question]

I did bother to shoot an email to my congresscritter, btw. For whatever that's worth.

-Arrian

[Drake Tungsten]

Is Wyden-Bennett necessarily incompatible with a public insurance plan?

Wyden smartly left a public-option out of the bill because he knew the Republicans won't support a bill that has one. I don't see why one couldn't be included, but it wouldn't add much to the bill.

[Sava]

Obesity is a choice issue/life style issue, not a quality of health care issue.

Yes and no. If you are educated, well informed, have access to and can afford other choices, then yes, it's a choice. But for some, if not many, it's a food supply issue... meaning, the choice is out of your hands because the only food you have access to is loaded with highly refined carbohydrates, HFCS and unhealthy fats. That kind of reform needs to occur before the "manufacturing" process.

And really, are we still talking about food if its made in a factory?

[DanS]

Ready for launch... And there are no fingerprints to implicate the GOP.

Conservative House Dem says health talks collapse
Jul 24 02:27 PM US/Eastern
By ERICA WERNER
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The head of a group of fiscally conservative Democrats says negotiations with House leaders on health care have collapsed.

Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., who heads the Blue Dogs' health care task force, told reporters Friday that after a week of talks, the effort to reach agreement between the leadership and the conservative to moderate Democrats fell apart. He said that leaves Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., without the votes to advance the health care bill out of his committee.

However, Waxman has threatened to force a floor vote to break the impasse within Democratic ranks on President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

[DaShi]

Yup, one thing the republicans have shown consistently this year is that we don't need them. Not even to stop crazy democrat ideas.

[DanS]

Yup, one thing the republicans have shown consistently this year is that we don't need them.

Why do you say that? The Dems are all of the sudden talking bipartisanship, now that they need GOP votes to push this fetid trash through.

If a sensible plan had been proposed, there would have been lots of GOP support. Missed opportunity.