The American "Healthcare" thread

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Insured Canadians will suffer so you don't have to. Enjoy.

[ricketyclik]

Cows feel somewhat complacent till the end and why shouldn't they with slick ads like this.

To anyone who believes the hogwash in that ad: in Australia we have compulsory Medicare and a Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, both of which cover the life-threatening stuff and commonplace necessities well, but not so the "elective" stuff, where a wait might be imposed. This is not a problem if you are prepared to purchase private health insurance, or simply pay up front for elective procedures and non-PBS medications.

Note that if the latter course is taken, costs for such procedures sound like they're a lot cheaper in Oz than the US, probably because our private system has to compete with people prepared to wait it out on the public system.

[Dinner]

That video is a complete lie. No one gets delayed for life threatening illnesses. The people who get delayed are the ones who want optional surgury but even with that we won't have Canadian style here because ALL of the providers would be private.

Republicans just enjoy lying and fear mongering. It's all they ever do.

[notyoueither]

That video is a complete lie. No one gets delayed for life threatening illnesses. The people who get delayed are the ones who want optional surgury but even with that we won't have Canadian style here because ALL of the providers would be private.

What?

[notyoueither]

To anyone who believes the hogwash in that ad

It's not entirely untrue. I wish it were.

[Riesstiu IV]

You don't need to raise your taxes. Just stop invading other countries.

We can invade countries, have a budget surplus, AND have universal insurance coverage for Americans. We just have to sell the 50 million uninsured people into slavery, and use the profits to pay health insurance companies to raise an army of genetically enhanced super-soldiers.

[ricketyclik]

It's not entirely untrue. I wish it were.

Let me clarify: it is not necessarily true of a public health system.

[DinoDoc]

Let me clarify: it is not necessarily true of a public health system.

Well they are specifically talking about the Canadian experience with it. The quotes from the vid saying stuff like Government runs health care in Canada ... should have been a big clue.

[Straybow]

The serious answer is

1) People are deathly afraid of change.

2) Many, many people are truly stupid.

3) The people who make obscene amounts of money because of the current situation play A LOT of ads to create more fear of change and to prey upon people's stupidity.

4) The people who make money off of the current system pay politicians obscene amounts of money to make sure their gravy train continues.

Nope, change is good. We just prefer change that makes sense and will work, rather than idiotic pie-in-the-sky change that will starve the most inventive health care research in the world, and eventually leave us all queuing up for government rationed medicine and surgeries.

I tell you what, oerdy, YOU sign up for that health plan. Leave me my choices in the free market. I promise I'll attend your funeral and weep genuine tears after the government decides you have lived long enough and shouldn't get any care at all. But you'll still be the stupid one. Sorry.

After the Pork Package, we should be afraid of what ObamaCare will be. Anyone who looks at what Obama and the Dems have already done and does not fear what they shall yet attempt is stupid. That, again, would be you (if the shoe fits).

And let's talk about No-Lobbyists-In-My-Administration Obama while you're whining about people who pay politicians obscene amounts of money to influence what happens in Washington.

[ricketyclik]

Well they are specifically talking about the Canadian experience with it. The quotes from the vid saying stuff like Government runs health care in Canada ... should have been a big clue.

Yes I realise that, but the inference is that state health is bad, because [it says] the Canadian one is.

[Az]

Cows feel somewhat complacent till the end and why shouldn't they with slick ads like this.

ahahahahahahahahaha

I am ok now I ran a test I am ok now I ran a test I love you john noooooooo

[zakubandit]

The point the opposition is making against socialized medicine isn't because of fear of change. That is more like saying everyone who is the opposite of Obama fears change and they shouldn't...meaning we need to all think a like. No. Wrong. Draconian. Socialist. Call it whatever, its wrong. We are all different and all want different things. The ones who want the socialized medicine aren't incorrect in what they want, they are incorrect for wanting to force a REQUIREMENT on citizens who do not believe in, agree with, or want socialized medicine. Health care costs start with the medical industry, get them under control, we regulate everyone else so regulate them. Maybe that would start a balance. Requiring people to get insurance takes money from the poor and again gives it to the rich *insurance companies* so how is that any more right than what we have now? Taking tax payers money and giving it to the poor or lazy is wrong to the tax payers, who pay taxes to ensure we aren't invaded, destroyed, have law and order maintained, etc. Either way the fight against socialized medicine is justified, is needed, and is not going to go away no matter how much people want everyone to just surrender their ideals and conform.

[ricketyclik]

The ones who want the socialized medicine aren't incorrect in what they want, they are incorrect for wanting to force a REQUIREMENT on citizens who do not believe in, agree with, or want socialized medicine.

But that's what socialised medicine is.

[DaShi]

Given that the insurance for the poor is so subsidized, it will hardly cost them anything. In addition, it will be a lot cheaper than having no insurance and going bankrupt from a few medical bills in the current system. The real issue is how the government will be able to pay for these subsidies.

[Az]

The point the opposition is making against socialized medicine isn't because of fear of change. That is more like saying everyone who is the opposite of Obama fears change and they shouldn't...meaning we need to all think a like. No. Wrong. Draconian. Socialist. Call it whatever, its wrong. We are all different and all want different things. The ones who want the socialized medicine aren't incorrect in what they want, they are incorrect for wanting to force a REQUIREMENT on citizens who do not believe in, agree with, or want socialized medicine. Health care costs start with the medical industry, get them under control, we regulate everyone else so regulate them. Maybe that would start a balance. Requiring people to get insurance takes money from the poor and again gives it to the rich *insurance companies* so how is that any more right than what we have now? Taking tax payers money and giving it to the poor or lazy is wrong to the tax payers, who pay taxes to ensure we aren't invaded, destroyed, have law and order maintained, etc. Either way the fight against socialized medicine is justified, is needed, and is not going to go away no matter how much people want everyone to just surrender their ideals and conform.

You're going all wrong about this. We don't all want different things. Especially in the case of healthcare. We want the same things. To have as little healthcare problems as possible. Let me just say this. For a system that would cost 66% of your current health expenses, you could construct a government/non-profit system, that would actually work, would a similar coverage for most americans. This would be achieved by the complete stripping of billing systems, a mountain of bureaucrats, unused capacity, and especially the profit margins and insane salaries required by the private medical industry.

Those people who will want on-the sport ultrasuperpremium healthcare will be able to pay for it, also. Remember, all of the ultra-rich will benefit from a socialized healthcare system as well - Most employers would love socialized medicine, as it reduces their costs.

Don't use the "free market" solution, just because.

National healthcare - now.