The American "Healthcare" thread

[rah]

1. I'm not a big Obama fan. (shouldn't surprise anyone here)
2. While there was considerable smoke and mirrors, he did have some good points and he really knows how to give a speech
3. Yes I agree that something needs be done before it gets worse (best strategy to use and he was effective using it)
4. But expecting any group of politicians to come up with the right answer is quite naive. Expecting them to do it quickly, even more naive (even though I liked his 'must set a deadline' rationale)

[Arrian]

The current system sucks. The free(ish) market hasn't done the job. Not even CLOSE.

So we're gonna try something different. Something that has worked pretty damn well for a number of countries. Not just Canada (decent system, with its flaws), but also France, Australia, Switzerland, and so on and so forth. The details of how we do it matter, of course, and I'm worried like everyone else.

The prime users of the system are going to be lower class

It's pretty clear that the idea of poor people getting help from the government really, really, really pisses some people off. I'm sorry it upsets you so.

-Arrian

[DaShi]

But it is still better than the system we have now.

[rah]

There is no guarentee that any plan agreed to by a bunch of corrupt politicians will be better than what we have now.

[Arrian]

True, but the bar is set awfully low. Even the rat bastards in Congress should be able to clear it.

-Arrian

[rah]

I'm not to sure of that. That type of thinking has lead to even bigger problems in the past.
Consider how Obama opened his speach in an attempt to gain credability.
He basically stated that thanks to the economic stimulous package passed that America has turned the corner and is headed back towards recovery.
That sure didn't raise my confidence about the rest of his speech.

[Caligastia]

There is no guarentee that any plan agreed to by a bunch of corrupt politicians will be better than what we have now.

Oh come on, look at how great the U.S. postal service is!

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

What's so ****ing totalitarian about that? It's an efficient system that works worldwide. Much better than yours. They are not micromanaging you any more than they are micromanaging you in what are you fighting ( with your money), or what kind of education are your children getting. How is that an intrusion into your privacy?

Point 1. When did claims of efficiency become a defense against claims of totalitarianism? Are you sure you want to go there in light of the experiences of the 20th century.

Point 2. Efficient system. Not so much from other claims. But we leave that for now.

Point 3. Better than US. BAM but nothing shown in these thread has been in any way provable of better foreign health care. Stats about life expectancy have always been skewed by other factors that have little to do with quality of health care provided such as higher auto accident rates, obesity rates, etc. In fact one can make arguements that availability to better health care procedures in infant care can make for delivery of many under weight children (that unfortunately have unavoidable high mortality rates) that get counted in the mortality statistics that would never go full term and hence don't show up in mortality statistics of other nations.

Point 4. Given no details exist about a plan the idea that health care choices are better or worse than existing is at best a guess. One thing is certain however, if the intention is to target only the profit motive of health care providers the marked disincentive to enter the field of health care providers is real. Given the intention is to increase the demand of health care by providing health care for an additional 10-15% of the populace, finding a way to remove suppliers of providers by disincentivizing them doesn't make sense. How does one end up dealing with the disconnect between supply and demand?

[DinoDoc]

True, but the bar is set awfully low. Even the rat bastards in Congress should be able to clear it.

According to the CBO, they seem to be failing so far.

[notyoueither]

In fact one can make arguements that availability to better health care procedures in infant care can make for delivery of many under weight children (that unfortunately have unavoidable high mortality rates) that get counted in the mortality statistics that would never go full term and hence don't show up in mortality statistics of other nations.

Other countries don't have preemies?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

In fact one can make arguements that availability to better health care procedures in infant care can make for delivery of many under weight children (that unfortunately have unavoidable high mortality rates) that get counted in the mortality statistics that would never go full term and hence don't show up in mortality statistics of other nations.

Other countries don't have preemies?

Can't speak to other countries preemie rates. But in US it has been on the increase.

http://www.marchofdimes.com/aboutus/10651_10763.asp

[Drake Tungsten]

So we're gonna try something different.

How 'bout we try something non-retarded? The Healthy Americans Act is ready to go...

[DinoDoc]

So we're gonna try something different.

How 'bout we try something non-retarded? The Healthy Americans Act is ready to go...

You know as well as I do that the Dem leadership isn't going to let that bill go anywhere.

[Drake Tungsten]

It's far too sensible and bipartisan.

[rah]

From the morning paper. simplistic but I laughed