Where does Obama stand on gay rights?

[Ben Kenobi]

So they haven't transfered their right to life to the society/state due to their heinous act? Even if they have violated someone else's right to life, do they not have their own, which, suppposedly, is inalienable?

I'd argue they do, but then I'm not a proponent of the death penalty.

[MrFun]

More likely Obama is being pragmatic, and sees the long-term shift towards gay rights and figures he has enough **** to deal with now w/o using time and political capital on gay rights issues. Which sucks for gays right now, of course.

You get it - Imran does not.

[Ben Kenobi]

George W. Bush is an example of a homophobe, in stark contrast to Barack Obama.

The only difference is that magic D which renders you immune from being a homophobe.

It's the same way Democrats who supported slavery are never called out for it.

[molly bloom]

Rights are not created by society. "We hold these truths to be self evident," If a 'right' were only defined through societal consensus then they are alienable.

Rghts are inded created by society- from ancient times various groups have been denied the right to vote, to procreate, to run a business, to marry legally, to own property, to worship in their own fashion, to name but a few.

Saying that they held truths to be self-evident (that is, there were supposed to be inalienable 'natural' rights) was just a way for certain 18th Century politicians/philosophers/citizens to circumvent the 'god-given' rights debate in favour of a pronouncement of supposedly inherent 'natural' rights.

A 'right' is an artificial human construct- a seashell or the wind or ambergris is natural, that is, originating in nature.

Even at the time of the Declaration Of Independence and the creation of the Bill Of Rights, women Roman Catholics and slaves in the U.S. were denied rights assumed by others.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You get it - Imran does not.

Or rather, I'm not drinking the Kool-aid. Obama could with a stroke of the pen say the government will not enforce DADT.

He's snookered you all. It may just take a few years for y'all to figure it out and turn on him for cowardice like you did with President Clinton.

[Edan]

This is why I believe your use of the word "homophobe" when referring to Obama seems to be a troll rather than a serious comment. Obama has done positive things that are supportive of gays and lesbians.

George W. Bush is an example of a homophobe, in stark contrast to Barack Obama. During his two terms as president, Bushie has not done anything to show support for gays and lesbians - in policy making or public speaking.

What precisely has Obama done that Bush hasn't, other than give a few supportive speeches during the election?

And if what you say, rather than what you do, matters, I posit that Cheney is more pro-gay than Obama, because Cheney has spoken in support of gay marriage.

[MrFun]

Edan, how about some of the same benefits for gay and lesbian partners who are federal employees that straight federal employees enjoy?

And even if it's "just" a speech, it says something for a president to publicly support gay pride at risk of losing some of his political support among other groups.

And Obama also supports civil unions for gays and lesbians - something no one of the likes of George W. Bush would never support.

I predict that Obama will undo "don't ask, don't tell, don't pursue" and DOMA. It's been less than six months people - how can you claim he has failed when he has plenty of time yet to still do these things?

Sometimes, instant gratification is for bratty children like Imran.
All of this reminds me of the historical example of extreme abolitionists who called Lincoln pro-slavery because he did not abolish slavery the day after his presidential term began.

[Edan]

Edan, how about some of the same benefits for gay and lesbian partners who are federal employees that straight federal employees enjoy?

You mean what was pulled out of his ass at the last minute in order to, as the administration admits prevent a fund raising disaster? That only include minor benefits, and some of those being touted are already available? I suppose that, technically, it's a step forward. Barely. And one that required a shove.

All of this reminds me of the historical example of extreme abolitionists who called Lincoln pro-slavery because he did not abolish slavery the day after his presidential term began.

You mean this Lincoln:

If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.

[rah]

I"m sure we'll see no more real pushes until just prior to the next election.

[Edan]

I"m sure we'll see no more real pushes until just prior to the next election.

Because it'll be more politically prudent to push gay rights legislation during an election year.

[rah]

Yes, I believe i was inferring that. The man is a good politician.
But watching him is entertaining because it's so obvious that he's in way over his head. I'm sure he'll be better in a few years, after reality has beaten him up a few times.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sometimes, instant gratification is for bratty children like Imran.
All of this reminds me of the historical example of extreme abolitionists who called Lincoln pro-slavery because he did not abolish slavery the day after his presidential term began.

Keep drinking the Kool-aide

He hasn't done anything of signifcance for gay Americans, when he has lots of power to change things even without pushing for legislation from Congress. He's even backed some of the most retrograde language in support of anti-gay legislation in the court system.

But keep thinking that, in the end, his plan will see the light of day. Is this also what you thought would happen with President Clinton who you are now disappointed in for DADT?

[MrFun]

I was bitterly disappointed with Clinton, Imran. Who are you to say that Obama will turn out to be exactly the same kind of disappointment?

Homophobes do not support civil unions. Homophobes do not extend ANY benefits to federal government employees who are gay or lesbian. Homophobes do not publicly speak out in support of gay pride month. Homophobes do not appoint openly gay and lesbian government office holders. Homophobes do not include openly gay marching bands in their inauguration.

Get it now?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I was bitterly disappointed with Clinton, Imran. Who are you to say that Obama will turn out to be exactly the same kind of disappointment?

Because you are drinking the Kool-aide. Why not wait until Obama actually does SOMETHING for gay rights before annointing him?

Homophobes do not support civil unions. Homophobes do not extend ANY benefits to federal government employees who are gay or lesbian. Homophobes do not publicly speak out in support of gay pride month. Homophobes do not appoint openly gay and lesbian government office holders. Homophobes do not include openly gay marching bands in their inauguration.

Get it now?

Homophobes do not believe that gays should have equal rights. That includes marriage.

Get it now?

[Blaupanzer]

What precisely has Obama done that Bush hasn't, other than give a few supportive speeches during the election?

And if what you say, rather than what you do, matters, I posit that Cheney is more pro-gay than Obama, because Cheney has spoken in support of gay marriage.

First question gets a narrow and disappointing answer related to the Federal employees benefits. The assertion following that surprises me. Has Cheney, the former VP addressed Gay Marraige recently in a positive way? I must have missed that.