Where does Obama stand on gay rights?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Can we just go back to talking about how Obama is a homophobe?

[Ben Kenobi]

Broadly speaking, rights are defined by societal consensus.

No, they aren't. Rights are not created by society. "We hold these truths to be self evident," Customs are defined by societal consensus. Customs are not inalienable. If a 'right' were only defined through societal consensus then they are alienable.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Rights are not created by society.

Yes they are.

"We hold these truths to be self evident,"

Which, obviously, the British didn't at the time... ergo, not really all that self-evident.

[Ben Kenobi]

These are the same Brits who repealed slavery well before the Americans?

The issue over the declaration of independence wasn't over the self-evidence of these principles, but rather over the right to self-rule by the American people. It was one of jurisdiction not of principles.

Yes they are.

Then they are alienable. Customs change, rights don't.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Of course they are alienable. Duh.

We alienate the "right to life" all the time. It's called executions.

[MrFun]

Can we just go back to talking about how Obama is a homophobe?

He's not a homophobe. You do understand how politics work, right?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Keep putting on the blindfold, MrFun

Or do you think that someone can be against marriage equality and yet not be a homophobe?

[Ben Kenobi]

Or do you think that someone can be against marriage equality and yet not be a homophobe?

That's the power of the D. It's the same for Robert Byrd, Grand Wizard of the KKK. It's magic.

[Ben Kenobi]

We alienate the "right to life" all the time. It's called executions.

Only in the case where someone has already killed another person. The reason they are on trial is because they have violated someone else's right to life.

And I'd question whether most of the US even believes in capital punishment anymore.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Only in the case where someone has already killed another person. The reason they are on trial is because they have violated someone else's right to life.

So they haven't transfered their right to life to the society/state due to their heinous act? Even if they have violated someone else's right to life, do they not have their own, which, suppposedly, is inalienable?

[Edan]

Keep putting on the blindfold, MrFun

Or do you think that someone can be against marriage equality and yet not be a homophobe?

Someone who supports civil unions?

That said, Obama hasn't taken any actions towards civil unions.

[Imran Siddiqui]

There are plenty of gays, and I think MrFun is one (I could be wrong), who think that those that do not support marriage equality are somewhat bigoted.

[Jon Miller]

Keep putting on the blindfold, MrFun

Or do you think that someone can be against marriage equality and yet not be a homophobe?

I am not a homophobe, am against 'marriage equality' and am in favor of homosexual marriage.

JM

[MrFun]

There are plenty of gays, and I think MrFun is one (I could be wrong), who think that those that do not support marriage equality are somewhat bigoted.

Part of politics is that politicians sometimes take public stances on issues that are different and even contradictory to what they personally believe in.

A homophobe is someone who absolutely refuses to ANYTHING that shows support, understanding, and respect for gays and lesbians.

This is why I believe your use of the word "homophobe" when referring to Obama seems to be a troll rather than a serious comment. Obama has done positive things that are supportive of gays and lesbians.

George W. Bush is an example of a homophobe, in stark contrast to Barack Obama. During his two terms as president, Bushie has not done anything to show support for gays and lesbians - in policy making or public speaking.

As for those who oppose equal marriage rights for gays and lesbians, I do believe that the great number of them are truly bigoted/homophobic. There are others though, who may change their opinion at some point and willing to listen to the compelling argument for equal rights. I am less willing to so quickly call those kind of people bigoted/homophobic.

And as for the Justice Department's recent public statement on equal marriage rights, I strongly believe that its wording is deplorable and blatantly offensive. I do not know to what extent Obama is personally involved in the wording of that statement. He should step forward and retract the more bigoted part of this statement.

[Theben]

More likely Obama is being pragmatic, and sees the long-term shift towards gay rights and figures he has enough **** to deal with now w/o using time and political capital on gay rights issues. Which sucks for gays right now, of course.