Where does Obama stand on gay rights?

[MrFun]

Drake, when it comes to injustice and degradation of other human beings, why does length of time matter?

[Blaupanzer]

You always ask everyone else for evidence. Provide disproofs if any, and I will go redo research from years ago and see what sources told me that pre the google era. However, if you cannot establish that I am incorrect, I will tend to ignore your question. You have already proven that you are both ill-informed about human rights. (My estimate is "around 1850" because by then a considerable number of these states either freed their slaves or identified that formal action needed to be taken on this issue.) Similarly you have shown yourself to be close-minded in your discussions, for example denying that marraige is a right when you know full well that formal marraige confers rights on the participants in most of the Western world (and in most of the rest as well).

If I recall correctly, the discussion was: is Obama going to do or at least attempt to do any of the things he promised in the campaign in relationship to his gay constituency(?). I am one of those heteros who reads the Blade, keeps up on community news, advocates for GLBT civil rights and feels very disappointed that zero has happened so far. On these issues and those related to the failed drug war, Obama seems to not really care. Maybe he will focus on these later, but so far he seems to be laughing folks off.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you really think gay people should marry straight people of the opposite gender in order to exercise their "right"?

Yes.

[Drake Tungsten]

You always ask everyone else for evidence. Provide disproofs if any, and I will go redo research from years ago and see what sources told me that pre the google era

Start researching, son...

n North America, laws against interracial marriage and interracial sex existed and were enforced in the Thirteen Colonies from the late seventeenth century onwards, and subsequently in several US states and US territories until 1967. Similar laws were also enforced in Nazi Germany, from 1935 until 1945, and in South Africa during the Apartheid era, from 1949 until 1985.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws

Hardly a large group...

There are plenty of examples of inter-ethnic and inter-racial marriage on Wiki and little evidence for any of the widespread restrictions on miscegenation that you claimed.

[Blaupanzer]

Ben, the value of your opinion on this is much diminished since you think practicing gays are going to hell. So having them tell one more lie (marrying someone they have no desire to live with), doesn't bother you. However, for Christians who believe God reserves to himself the right to judge and wish for people to able to marry in accordance with their own wishes, starting the process with a phony wedding based on a lie seems like a very bad idea.

[Edan]

Do you really think gay people should marry straight people of the opposite gender in order to exercise their "right"?

Yes.

Protecting traditional sham marriages.

[Blaupanzer]

Ben wants all gays back in the closet as it makes him more comfortable. But let us request that he and the vocal Christians go underground so we will be more comfortable, and watch him scream like a Banshee.

[Drake Tungsten]

You'll also notice that the majority of the historical restrictions on intermarriage were justified on religious grounds, not racial ones. The U.S., Nazi Germany and South Africa were anomalies.

[MrFun]

No matter the justification, it's still inhuman degradation.

[Blaupanzer]

Do you misunderstand the definition of miscegenation? Seemed you just looked it up in Wikipedia, then ignored most of the article discussing the practice. In that source: "Miscegenation (Latin miscere "to mix" + genus "kind") is the mixing of different racial groups, that is, marrying, cohabiting, having sexual relations and having children with a partner from outside one's racially or ethnically defined group." Ethnically defined bans are quite common in the period I defined and are often religious, especially where religion dictates legal and, more importantly, illegal acts.

These bans are also despicable, anti-democratic, and unacceptable. Churches can refuse to perform any ceremony they please, but civil authorities should allow any two adults to marry each other so long as neither is acting under coercion.

[Jon Miller]

That 'right' has only existed in a few peoples minds for the last 50 or so years.

JM

[MrFun]

That 'right' has only existed in a few peoples minds for the last 50 or so years.

JM

Yes, and the point is . . . .

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, the value of your opinion on this is much diminished since you think practicing gays are going to hell.

That is the fate for everyone who hasn't repented.

So having them tell one more lie

Who says I want them to lie? I want them to experience the full joys and blessings of being married to a wonderful wife or husband, and to start their own family. I am not the one tying them up with the chains and bonds of sin, and saying that there is no other hope out there.

(marrying someone they have no desire to live with)

Where did I say this? I believe it is entirely possibly for those who have engaged in homosexuality to get married to a woman that they love and go from there.

However, for Christians who believe God reserves to himself the right to judge and wish for people to able to marry in accordance with their own wishes, starting the process with a phony wedding based on a lie seems like a very bad idea.

I agree, which is why I am challenging you with an entirely different notion. That of repentence. People can and do change and turn away from their sins. I am saying I believe that a much better life is open for them, regardless of what they have done in the past.

I know this because it is why I have experienced in my own life. If there is hope for me, then there is hope for everyone.

[Jon Miller]

Yes, and the point is . . . .

You can't argue in support of something because it is a right when such a right is a new right, not held generally in the past/etc.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

Exactly so. Mr. Fun seems to believe that rights are something that is created by society.